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Thread: Problem with Optimum Start

  1. #11
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    I also have one rad out of 14 that doesn't quite open fully. Swapped around the different heads and no difference. Eventually tried the full stroke and it opened fully. However, did notice a big difference in battery life (I've had the evohome system in for 3 years now). As there is a second rad in the room then between them they do the job. So set it back to normal stroke and just notice it always closes much earlier than the other rad even though the room is not anywhere near its temp setting. So I have concluded that the rad valve must have a shorted control pin than normal. I actually found I could get it to open fully just by loosening the head - but then it doesn't always close properly! As DBMandrake - I also am not contemplating draining the system just for one valve that has eccentric tendencies

  2. #12
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    Everyone is entitled to an opinion and I am here to be factual. So I suggest in the name of facts you attach the HR92 valve baseplate to a radiator valve and then see what difference 'Full-stroke mode' makes as far as dimensions of the pin it operates go.

    In my previous testing, the standard M30 x 1.5mm valve baseplate has an internal dimension of 14mm from the pin in the fully open position to where the base plate will bottom out on the valve (at hand tightness). A Honeywell Valencia V120-15A co-incidentally has a dimension of 14mm too. When the pin is fully depressed on a V120-15A the dimension is 12mm. Therefore only 50% valve baseplate travel/stroke will fully close the valve from fully open. After the HR92 had calibrated the valve, the position at 0% was at the closed dimension (12mm) and the fully open position at 100% was 14mm. I have just re-tested this in 'Full-stroke mode' and it is exactly the same. The only difference now is that the torque has been increased and the battery life reduced.

    I agree there is a variation between radiator valves, but based on my personal experience 'Standard valve stroke' is sufficient for the majority of installations with industry standard BS-EN radiator valves. Using 'Full-stroke mode' without complete justification will cause people to be replacing HR92 batteries more often.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveP View Post
    I also have one rad out of 14 that doesn't quite open fully. Swapped around the different heads and no difference. Eventually tried the full stroke and it opened fully. However, did notice a big difference in battery life (I've had the evohome system in for 3 years now). As there is a second rad in the room then between them they do the job. So set it back to normal stroke and just notice it always closes much earlier than the other rad even though the room is not anywhere near its temp setting. So I have concluded that the rad valve must have a shorted control pin than normal. I actually found I could get it to open fully just by loosening the head - but then it doesn't always close properly! As DBMandrake - I also am not contemplating draining the system just for one valve that has eccentric tendencies
    Is that HR92's you're using or the older HR80's ? I didn't think that the HR92 had been out for 3 years... If its the HR80 then I'm not sure that the results would be directly transferable to the HR92, although it does echo what I see with the HR92 as well.

    Personally I would rather keep warm and have my living room get up to temperature properly and in a timely fashion even if it means the battery only lasts for a year instead of two, in that one affected HR92! I think it's fairly clear that the reduced stroke setting (by default) is a battery saving measure and that with 95% of valves it works fine without full stroke.

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    Yep it is the HR80 that was the problem and I have some HR92s in the mix. You are correct and maybe the results aren't transferable although the actual actuators appear the same in both the HR80 and HR92 as I am able to swap the HR92s I have onto HR80 bases, but the behaviour does appear to be similar to yours. Just sharing In case anyone wondered, I move the HR92s around as they have a backlight and so great for rads that get the temperature locally changed a lot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The EVOHOME Shop View Post
    Everyone is entitled to an opinion and I am here to be factual. So I suggest in the name of facts you attach the HR92 valve baseplate to a radiator valve and then see what difference 'Full-stroke mode' makes as far as dimensions of the pin it operates go.
    No real need to do this - what's invalid in test I already described ? After being calibrated turn the temperature down low so the valve "fully" closes, then turn it up high again so that it fully opens. Then unlock the HR92, lift it off, and check how many turns away from fully open the wheel is. On this particular valve it is approximately 1-2 turns away from hitting the built in limit stop in the HR92 adaptor base. (I will test it again and get a more accurate figure) Turning the wheel the remaining revolutions does make a very obvious difference to the radiator flow and temperature (measured with an IR gun) on this particular valve/radiator.

    Change to full stroke and let it recalibrate then follow the same procedure of allowing it to fully close then fully open - in this case you can actually hear it hit the limit stop and when I remove the HR92 I find that the black wheel is fully unwound to the limit stop. On my particular valve there is no doubt whatsoever that full stroke fully opens the valve and standard stroke does not. No opinion required, just a simple, sound test. I'm not saying that it's a common occurrence in general by any means.

    In my previous testing, the standard M30 x 1.5mm valve baseplate has an internal dimension of 14mm from the pin in the fully open position to where the base plate will bottom out on the valve (at hand tightness). A Honeywell Valencia V120-15A co-incidentally has a dimension of 14mm too. When the pin is fully depressed on a V120-15A the dimension is 12mm. Therefore only 50% valve baseplate travel/stroke will fully close the valve from fully open. After the HR92 had calibrated the valve, the position at 0% was at the closed dimension (12mm) and the fully open position at 100% was 14mm. I have just re-tested this in 'Full-stroke mode' and it is exactly the same. The only difference now is that the torque has been increased and the battery life reduced.
    It sounds like your valve has a fairly limited travel of only 2mm, which would explain why you see no difference between the modes. I will have to check now as you have got me thinking about it, but I think my valves have significantly more travel than that. Will have a play over the weekend and measure the exact pin travel to see how it compares with your measurements.

    The calibration process begins by closing the valve as much as possible until the motor reaches a certain load, this then counts as 0% and the next time the valve tries to fully open it calibrates that as 100%. (The calibration process can be observed by watching the valve pos figure while it is calibrating) It seems from my testing though that in reduced stroke mode it will only open by a maximum of X number of turns from the calibrated closed position, rather than opening until it hits the limit stop. So if you have a valve that fully opens within that number of turns you won't see a difference in performance, however if you have a valve that opens over wider range of movement it may stop before the valve is fully open.
    I agree there is a variation between radiator valves, but based on my personal experience 'Standard valve stroke' is sufficient for the majority of installations with industry standard BS-EN radiator valves. Using 'Full-stroke mode' without complete justification will cause people to be replacing HR92 batteries more often.
    I was certainly not advocating using it all the time - I am only using it on the one valve where I seem to need it and not the other valves in the house, and have only suggested it to two people who were both potentially suffering from the same issue as me, and only suggested that they try it before they go to the trouble of replacing a radiator just in case the valve may not be fully opening like mine.
    Last edited by DBMandrake; 21st January 2016 at 04:58 PM.

  6. #16
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    Please don't feel like I am trying to go against you, I am very impressed with your posts and anyone that knows me will know I am a big believer of knowledge sharing and helping people, hence I try to make my post as factual as possible.

    So for information sharing, I have just measured and tested several different radiator valves we have here (when we first started selling evohome we produced our own compatibility chart as there wasn't any guidance on TRV's and what would fit HR92's) and the pin stroke on them is typically 2mm from open to closed - the thing that does vary is the pin height by about 1mm (so some 14mm and some 13mm). If the HR92 calibrated a 13mm pin down to 11mm and back up, it actually wouldn't need to go all the way to the upper stop to have the valve in the fully open position.

    As for 'Full-stroke mode' we have customers who always ask what battery life is like on these and two years battery life is a much better selling point than a year! If I was recommending changing setting 6 then I would fully explain the negatives of doing so and battery life reduction by typically 50% is a major negative in my opinion.

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    Sorry, I didn't mean to come across as defensive, I appreciate the time you take to post on the forum and sharing what you know and helping people - the fact that you do so is one of the major reasons I decided to buy my Evohome system from you and I plan to buy the rest of it from you as well as I gradually fill the system out with more HR92's etc... (having a good easy to use website and good prices contributes too )

    I am quite curious now so I will do some measuring over the weekend to find out if my valve does indeed travel more than 2mm or whether it just has a large offset from the "typical" figures. (Or maybe it is just a bit sticky) I'll let people know what I find.
    Last edited by DBMandrake; 21st January 2016 at 05:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DBMandrake View Post
    Sorry, I didn't mean to come across as defensive, I appreciate the time you take to post on the forum and sharing what you know and helping people - the fact that you do so is one of the major reasons I decided to buy my Evohome system from you and I plan to buy the rest of it from you as well as I gradually fill the system out with more HR92's etc... (having a good easy to use website and good prices contributes too )

    I am quite curious now so I will do some measuring over the weekend to find out if my valve does indeed travel more than 2mm or whether it just has a large offset from the "typical" figures. (Or maybe it is just a bit sticky) I'll let people know what I find.
    I really appreciate your business and the sentiment. I didn't mean to come across as arrogant, as short answers can seem to on forums sometimes. Time is unfortunately limited for me during the day, so if I post I do try to keep to the point.

    In one case (can't remember the make of the dam TRV now but it wasn't BS-EN) the valve pin was exceptionally long, but the valve pin stroke again was only about 2-3mm - in this case the customer actually ground the valve pin down to 14mm and reported the TRV's worked perfectly afterwards.

    I have planned to update our website to detail and show everything I have learned over the last couple of years with evohome (if I die it all goes with me so to speak) and make the website a really good resource of evohome information. In light of this conversation I will try and get back onto this next week and start updating the website (and my HR92 compatibility page) with more information.

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    Some very good information in this thread. Since your updating your website Richard, ive managed to find the leaflet for my unbranded plumbase ones. They have 'Pro Fit' on the data sheet Certified to EN 215, i can send you a scan if its useful to you and others.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leigh View Post
    Some very good information in this thread. Since your updating your website Richard, ive managed to find the leaflet for my unbranded plumbase ones. They have 'Pro Fit' on the data sheet Certified to EN 215, i can send you a scan if its useful to you and others.
    That's great Leigh. If anyone has any TRV's they know will fit currently not on our HR92 compatibility chart, please let me know. If you have images too that would be great as this is going to be part of our website update.

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