HR92 - open/close 100% or modulating?

[DBMandrake]

It finds the "fully closed" position during the "cycle mode" that triggers about a minute after you lock the latch. (Unlocking and relocking the latch will trigger this cycle mode calibration again)

I have no inside information, but from my own detailed observations, during cycle mode it winds the pin down until the motor reaches a certain amount of torque (difficulty) in doing so. (You can hear it slowing down as it gets more difficult) With a DC motor its easy to measure the current drain of the motor - which increases as the load on the motor increases, eg as the motor has to apply more torque to turn. So the unit will tell the motor to turn in the valve close direction until the motor current increases to some set threshold and then stop and mark this as "fully closed", or P00 in the valve position menu option 10.

When you enable "full stroke" mode, both the voltage to the motor (you can hear it turning faster) and the torque threshold where it stops seems to be increased - so it will push the pin down significantly harder in full stroke mode and thus calibrate fully closed as more clockwise revolutions of the cog than standard stroke mode.

Fully open seems to be calibrated as a set number of turns from fully closed, or when it hits the internal limit stop on the cog - whichever comes first. In full stroke mode the number of revolutions from closed to open seems to be significantly increased. In normal stroke mode I have noticed that "fully open" is not always completely open on my valves - they are about half a turn from fully open however in full stroke mode it does open until it hits the limit stop in the HR92 base.

Obviously this all depends on the length of the pin on the valve and the adaptor, and the amount of travel of the pin, so if the pin in the valve or adaptor is too short the cog the motor drives may reach the end of its travel before the valve is fully closed - in this case full stroke mode won't help and you would need a longer pin, as you've done by changing adaptor.

Or it could also be that the valve is a bit seized/stiff or has an unusually strong return spring - in this case the "trip point" for calibrating the closed position may be too weak and thus happen too soon, in this case full stroke mode may help as it will try to wind the pin down harder. (But if its really stiff you should just replace the valve, as full stroke mode reduces battery life a lot)

By the way the fully closed and fully open position are constantly tweaked in normal use - every time the valve fully closes or fully opens (a large temperature differential between set point and measured temperature) small corrections are made to the calibration of the open and closed position. This can be observed by switching to Valve position mode 10 and watching as the valve reaches fully opens or closed - it can make small adjustments of a few percent which helps to keep things accurate if your valve gradually changes (stiffens) over time.

Hope that helps.

[morpheus]

It finds the "fully closed" position during the "cycle mode" that triggers about a minute after you lock the latch. (Unlocking and relocking the latch will trigger this cycle mode calibration again)

I have no inside information, but from my own detailed observations, during cycle mode it winds the pin down until the motor reaches a certain amount of torque (difficulty) in doing so. (You can hear it slowing down as it gets more difficult) With a DC motor its easy to measure the current drain of a motor - which increases as the load on the motor increases, eg as the motor has to apply more torque to turn. So the unit will tell the motor to turn in the valve close direction until the motor current increases to some set threshold and then stop and mark this as "fully closed", or P00 in the valve position menu option 10.

When you enable "full stroke" mode, both the voltage to the motor (you can hear it turning faster) and the torque threshold where it stops seems to be increased - so it will push the pin down significantly harder in full stroke mode and thus calibrate fully closed as more clockwise revolutions of the cog than standard stroke mode.

Fully open seems to be calibrated as a set number of turns from fully closed, or when it hits the internal limit stop on the cog - whichever comes first. In normal stroke mode I have noticed that "fully open" is not always completely open on my valves - they are about half a turn from fully open however in full stroke mode it does open until it hits the limit stop in the HR92 base.

Obviously this all depends on the length of the pin on the valve and the adaptor, and the amount of travel of the pin, so if the pin in the valve or adaptor is too short the cog the motor drives may reach the end of its travel before the valve is fully closed - in this case full stroke mode won't help and you would need a longer pin, as you've done by changing adaptor.

Or it could also be that the valve is a bit seized/stiff or has an unusually strong return spring - in this case the "trip point" for calibrating the closed position may be too weak and thus happen too soon, in this case full stroke mode may help as it will try to wind the pin in harder. (But if its really stiff you should just replace the valve, as full stroke mode reduces battery life a lot)

By the way the fully closed and fully open position are constantly tweaked in normal use - every time the valve fully closes or fully opens (a large temperature differential between set point and measured temperature) small corrections are made to the calibration of the open and closed position. This can be observed by switching to Valve position mode 10 and watching as the valve reaches fully opens or closed - it can make small adjustments of a few percent which helps to keep things accurate if your valve gradually changes (stiffens) over time.

Hope that helps.

Thanks a lot, I am in sync with you
;-)

[The EVOHOME Shop]

Does anybody know how the HR92 does in order to find the "completely closed" and "completely open" states of the valve body ?
I have a colleagu of line who used the M30 adaptors, and he saw the valve was never completely closed, so that the radiator was always heating if there was a demand on another zone.

Comparing with the M28 adaptors, we discovered that the pin is longer on that adaptor ...

[ATTACH=CONFIG]760[/ATTACH]

so he replaced all the shorter pins of hiw M30 adaptors by the pins of the M28 adaptors ... but this is not normal ....

Now assuming you have the correct adaptor with the correct pin length, how is the HR92 doing to find the exact "completely closed" and "completely open" states of the valve body ??

I have also seen there was the pamareter 6 on the HR96 which puts a standard or integral course, but according to the feedback I got this is only to play on the motor power for valve heads which would be blocked or harder for example ...

Many thanks !!

The ACH28 adaptor has a different length pin intentionally for the radiator valves it was designed to fit with. There should be absolutely no need to change these pins over to the standard M30 x 1.5mm valve base plate. My compatibility page should give you all the information you need to know when fitting HR92's to existing radiator valves - https://theevohomeshop.co.uk/content...-compatibility

Radiator valves outside the dimensions I show are not compatible and would need to be replaced.

[morpheus]

The ACH28 adaptor has a different length pin intentionally for the radiator valves it was designed to fit with. There should be absolutely no need to change these pins over to the standard M30 x 1.5mm valve base plate. My compatibility page should give you all the information you need to know when fitting HR92's to existing radiator valves - https://theevohomeshop.co.uk/content...-compatibility

Radiator valves outside the dimensions I show are not compatible and would need to be replaced.

I need to check with him what type he has .... but taking the longer pins of the M28 and put them in the M30 is the only solution he found so far.
I also got a reply from the Belgoian Honeywell technical support and they were also for example talking abut "Begetube" valves for which we need to install a "red hat" adapator ... but I do not see this in your list.

[The EVOHOME Shop]

I need to check with him what type he has .... but taking the longer pins of the M28 and put them in the M30 is the only solution he found so far.
I also got a reply from the Belgoian Honeywell technical support and they were also for example talking abut "Begetube" valves for which we need to install a "red hat" adapator ... but I do not see this in your list.

We sell the full range of Honeywell adaptors for UK market - EU may have different adaptors.

The standard valve base plate will only 'travel' 4mm from fully opened to fully closed. By using the longer valve pin, you have changed the travel dimensions which suggests the valve was not compatible in the first place. If it works now, why worry?

[morpheus]

... because even with changing the pin, the valve is now fully closed when the HR92 is at like 75% of its curse only.
So to resume :

My collegue seems to have Begetube system.
He needs to use the M30 adapator, but pin coming with the M30 is too short, so that the valve is continuously open and the radiator continuously heats
So he took the longed M28 pins and put them in the M30 adaptor, but then the pins seems to be too big.
Honeywell is talking about using a red cap from Begetube (??) to make a depth to compensate the pin length (Or a coin of 1 euro cent, but this is a bit crazy ...)

So do you know something about those red caps to be used on HR92 adaptors for Begetube ?
I understad from Belgian Honeywell support that it is build by Begetube for the HR92 but that looks strange to me.

[The EVOHOME Shop]

... because even with changing the pin, the valve is now fully closed when the HR92 is at like 75% of its curse only.
So to resume :

My collegue seems to have Begetube system.
He needs to use the M30 adapator, but pin coming with the M30 is too short, so that the valve is continuously open and the radiator continuously heats
So he took the longed M28 pins and put them in the M30 adaptor, but then the pins seems to be too big.
Honeywell is talking about using a red cap from Begetube (??) to make a depth to compensate the pin length (Or a coin of 1 euro cent, but this is a bit crazy ...)

So do you know something about those red caps to be used on HR92 adaptors for Begetube ?
I understand from Belgian Honeywell support that it is build by Begetube for the HR92 but that looks strange to me.

I know nothing about them and I've never come across them, so cannot advise sorry.

The mechanical side of the radiator valve is very simple - is the dimension 14mm from valve base to top of the valve pin and is there less than 4mm of travel on the pin from fully open to fully closed? If not what is the dimension and what is the travel?