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Thread: Summer Setting

  1. #1
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    Default Summer Setting

    What is the recommended way of closing down evohome for the summer months,not sure just to leave in off position with boiler on hot water only or if there is a better way of doing it

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    Automated Home Legend paulockenden's Avatar
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    If you really want to do this iust hit the Eco smartaction. If the temps get really cold your heating will come on (which is probably what you'd want), but under normal circumstances it won't.

    Really though, Evohome is about maintaining comfort levels, so the concept of turning the heating off for the summer doesn't (or rather, shouldn't) really apply. Your heating will just come on less and less until the days get hotter, then it'll stay off until the first colder days of autumn.

    P.

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    I wish that were the case. Despite how hot it has been recently, my bathroom indication has not gone above 18C. Occasionally the kitchen displays temperatures as low as 18C in the middle of the day and our bedroom has only recently displayed a temperature that would stop the heating coming on. As a result I have gone for the OFF option and disabled my IFTTT recipes to prevent it unnecessarily heating these rooms.

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    Automated Home Legend paulockenden's Avatar
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    Are you suggesting that your HR92s are recording incorrect temperatures?

    Or that the room actually are below their setpoints?

    P.

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    To an extent don't bother on the basis if the house is up to temperature naturally Evohome will not need to operate. However, I find that is not quite right and because of our anatomy and humidity levels we find we have a lower temperature set in summer than in winter. A room set to 20c or 21c in the winter is just as comfortable set to 18c in the summer. That could be done using the custom menu I suppose but it does use up the one and only custom menu option. You could set one of the other menus to a low temperature as opposed to off (5c) and then if you want heat it is likely only to be in one room, use the app as I assume a custom setting can still be overriden via the app or panel. I just drop the temperature to 18 in zones where it was higher and leave alone. Shame we cannot edit the custom menus in the app.
    Last edited by G4RHL; 7th June 2016 at 11:44 AM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulockenden View Post
    If you really want to do this iust hit the Eco smartaction. If the temps get really cold your heating will come on (which is probably what you'd want), but under normal circumstances it won't.

    Really though, Evohome is about maintaining comfort levels, so the concept of turning the heating off for the summer doesn't (or rather, shouldn't) really apply. Your heating will just come on less and less until the days get hotter, then it'll stay off until the first colder days of autumn.

    P.
    I've tried and failed to convince my other half of this. My temperature schedules have not changed significantly since the winter. (apart from some rescheduling for maternity leave) In the mornings in the last few weeks of hot weather none of the rooms have come on except the bathroom which is scheduled to a relatively high 22 degrees during shower time, and occasionally the kitchen will come on briefly in the early morning (scheduled to 20) then go off again for the rest of the day, as the kitchen is on the cold north side of the house. Meanwhile the hall way, living room and bedroom have not been coming on at all even in the morning because the temperature of the rooms is not dropping below the set points. During the day and evening none of the radiators have been coming on at all as all the set points are exceeded. The boiler remains off from about 8am (bathroom scheduled off again) until the next day.

    Despite this my other half (at home on maternity leave with a 2 month old) will turn "off" the heating soon after I leave for work even though the boiler is already off and I know it would not come back on during the day based on the measured temperatures. This comes back to the issue that many people including myself brought up in the "wishlist" thread that the Evohome controller really needs zone based heat demand display so that the owner can look at their screen and see that although there are scheduled temperatures that are a little below the current temperature the radiators in the zones are off and the boiler is also most definitely off - I trust the system, but less technical users in the house don't necessarily trust it to not be running when it doesn't need to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by paulockenden View Post
    Are you suggesting that your HR92s are recording incorrect temperatures?

    Or that the room actually are below their setpoints?

    P.
    When little or no heating is required, in my experience there can be an issue with temperature measurement from HR92's that can cause a ratcheting effect where the radiator will come on when it doesn't really need to, resulting in the room spiking over temperature by a degree or so. The issue is twofold:

    One part is the -1 degree offset you typically need to apply on an HR92 to get the correct room temperature, because a temperature reading taken next to a hot radiator will typically be about 1 degree higher than room temperature. Most of my rooms that use HR92 for the sensor have calibrate set to -1 for this reason. So your target temp might be 20 degrees but it actually measures 21 next to the hot radiator. Calibrate can compensate for this while the radiator is hot.

    As long as the radiator remains hot - as it will in the winter when it needs to run constantly to maintain the 20 degree room temperature, everything is fine. However in the warmer months where the room might just need a top up in the morning and then no more during the day, what happens is as the radiator cools down the temperature measured by the HR92 drops by about a degree even though the actual room temperature away from the radiator has not dropped at all. So now it will read 19 degrees (assuming you have the -1 calibration) and the radiator will come back on again even though the room is really still 20 degrees. The radiator will cycle on and off due to this and eventually the room temperature as measured away from the radiator will ratchet up to 21 degrees - a degree above the set point, and possibly even more due to the thermal mass of the radiator taking a while to cool.

    A second issue is that an HR92 measures the room temperature close to the floor, and typically right next to an outside wall and possibly even below windows that might be open in warmer weather. When the radiator is hot this is the best "on-radiator" location to measure from as it gets to measure the cool air drawn across the floor through convection which somewhat counteracts the localised heating from the radiator - if the HR92 was mounted at the top of the radiator (as some installers stupidly install TRV's so the controls can be reached easier) then you get less cold convected air and a lot more direct heat from the radiator leading to a much more inaccurate reading where the TRV senses a temperature that is a lot hotter than the room.

    However this floor measurement location works against you when the radiator is cold most of the time - there is now no convection, and in most rooms there is quite a temperature gradient between the floor and ceiling - I've measured about 3 degrees between floor and ceiling in our living room. So even if you ignore the -1 degree calibration offset, in a room where the radiator is off I find that the temperature reading close to the floor where the HR92 is is typically at least a degree lower than at 1.2 metres high where you would normally install a wall stat, sometimes more.

    So in short, with a combination of these two factors I find that an HR92 temperature reading can be as much as 2 degrees lower than the "real" room temperature as measured by a wall stat when the radiator is cold and there is a temperature gradient between floor and ceiling.

    In the spring months where the heating was starting to only need to "top up" the living room and not run constantly I found I had to set the temperature back a degree or so in the afternoon to prevent the radiator coming on even though the sun was now coming in and warming the room. And in the morning I'd need to turn it up a bit higher to get the rest of the room to hurry up and warm up. (The side of the room with the radiator was up to temperature but the rest of the room was a couple of degrees below the set point as measured by a standalone thermometer)

    The solution is simple, albeit expensive - I fitted a DT92 on the living room wall on the far side of the room from the radiator at a typical 1.2 metres height and all the problems described above were completely solved. With a remote sensor you no longer need a -1 degree calibration as it is not influenced directly by the radiator heat but measures the true temperature out in the room. And by putting it at 1.2 metres off the floor (also away from the cold wall in the room) it is not giving a false lower reading by measuring the temperature close to the floor or below open windows.

    Since I installed the DT92 I find that I now do not need to touch the set point at all - its scheduled for 20 degrees when the room is in use and that's it. Previously in the early morning on a weekend I was having to turn it up to about 22 and then drop that back to about 19-20 by mid afternoon to maintain a comfortable temperature. Now with it set to 20 it feels perfectly comfortable both in the morning and in the afternoon, and just as importantly once the room gets up to temperature (in the warmer weather) it goes off and stays off with no radiator on/off cycling and resultant temperature ratcheting.

    So anyone who is finding they have to make manual adjustments to the set point between cold mornings and warm afternoons, or between winter and summer, consider using a carefully placed remote wall stat like a DT92 - it really does make a big difference. Of course for cost reasons you'd probably only use one in key rooms such as the living room where you spend a lot of time and want the most precise control of temperature. (In a kitchen or bathroom who cares what the exact temperature is as long as its close enough...)
    Last edited by DBMandrake; 7th June 2016 at 12:10 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by G4RHL View Post
    To an extent don't bother on the basis if the house is up to temperature naturally Evohome will not need to operate. However, I find that is not quite right and because of our anatomy and humidity levels we find we have a lower temperature set in summer than in winter. A room set to 20c or 21c in the winter is just as comfortable set to 18c in the summer. That could be done using the custom menu I suppose but it does use up the one and only custom menu option. You could set one of the other menus to a low temperature as opposed to off (5c) and then if you want heat it is likely only to be in one room, use the app as I assume a custom setting can still be overriden via the app or panel. I just drop the temperature to 18 in zones where it was higher and leave alone. Shame we cannot edit the custom menus in the app.
    Do you use the HR92 to measure the temperatures in those rooms or a remote wall stat ? See my post above...

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBMandrake View Post

    Despite this my other half (at home on maternity leave with a 2 month old) will turn "off" the heating soon after I leave for work even though the boiler is already off and I know it would not come back on during the day based on the measured temperatures. This comes back to the issue that many people including myself brought up in the "wishlist" thread that the Evohome controller really needs zone based heat demand display so that the owner can look at their screen and see that although there are scheduled temperatures that are a little below the current temperature the radiators in the zones are off and the boiler is also most definitely off - I trust the system, but less technical users in the house don't necessarily trust it to not be running when it doesn't need to be.
    Couldn't agree more. A colleague asked me the other day if I had switched off my central heating. My reply "Why would dI want to do that?". He was puzzled and had not appreciated that if the temperature is already at or above what it needs to be heating will not come on. However, as you point out in other parts of your response you can end up with a room warmer than you would want it but generally not colder. It is for that reason I dropped those rooms set at above 18C to 18c and rely on the app for more heat if needed. An option for a Summer Menu would be helpful. I think 18c may even be slightly too high. My wife thinks all is set to the normal. If I told it was now set to 18c she would immediately say it was cold!!

  9. #9
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    I just tend to leave it on the Economy setting. If the odd room is a bit below temperature, I know the summer heat/sunshine will soon boost it to the required level without the heating coming. However, if there's a sudden cold snap the heating will kick in to stop it getting very cold albeit at three degrees colder than usual. As to hot water, the non-Evohome-controlled hot water stays on throughout the year as I reckon that oil is cheaper than the immersion heater.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulockenden View Post
    Are you suggesting that your HR92s are recording incorrect temperatures?

    Or that the room actually are below their setpoints?

    P.
    For the reasons that DBMandrake stated above, I don't believe that the HR92s record an accurate temperature when the heating is off. The last couple of days have been an exception as the temperature has been so high in the house, but generally the one in the bathroom has been indicating around 17C. I've left the electric underfloor heating to come on in the morning and when I get up it has indicated 18C. Now, this is on the north west side of the house but is between a bedroom and the kitchen with an extractor trickling and hence pulling in air from the hall which is generally indicting about 20C. I haven't actually tested the temperature but I can't believe that its only 17C. I don't use any offsets by the way.

    I could have left it on to heat this room back up and I'm pretty sure that once the convection current was established, then this temperature would quickly rise, but I don't see the point in wasting the energy so I've gone for the OFF option.

    As a slight aside, I'm pretty sure I see a similar behaviour in all zones when the setpoint drops in the winter. The displayed temperature does fall pretty quickly, despite that fact that when I put thermometers in these rooms, they show a much slower drop.

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