Boiler Relay - Comms Fault

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  • G4RHL
    Automated Home Legend
    • Jan 2015
    • 1580

    Boiler Relay - Comms Fault

    As reported in another thread last weekend I needed to replace the batteries in the sensor for the hot water thermostat. This also resulted in having to go into configuration in the Control Panel to rebind the sensor to the relay and then the relay to the Control Panel. Apart from also having to reset the water temperature, no problems. However, since then I have regularly, it scan be several times during the day, had the Panel telling me "Comms Fault - Boiler Relay". For 18 months I have had no problems and this has only just started since replacing the batteries in the sensor. I reset the boiler relay and re-bound it with the Panel but it has made no difference. I have noticed that on some occasions the fault log has reported the same fault right to the very minute at the same time as the previous day. Everything though works as it should.

    Anybody any idea why this should suddenly happen?

    My system does still work as it should, just this regular fault report yet it's not a fault as it works. Clearly it is putting out a signal every so often whether it needs to be on or off and getting a negative reply. It even happens when the boiler is fired up and running according to schedule but the system is not interrupted. I'd say it happens up to about 5 or 6 times during the day.

    One thought, I may be way off but I suppose possible, is that the new batteries in the temperature being new have produced a stronger signal than the old, the sensor is more than 30cms below the boiler relay, but perhaps possible despite the difference apart being OK the signal strength is greater and interfering.
  • emailuser
    Automated Home Lurker
    • Dec 2011
    • 2

    #2
    Fault

    I am also seeing this issue, it happens nearly everyday roughly at the same time, as said below everything works but getting this annoying panel fault message, I also have a work colleague that has the same , surely a bug ??


    Originally posted by G4RHL View Post
    As reported in another thread last weekend I needed to replace the batteries in the sensor for the hot water thermostat. This also resulted in having to go into configuration in the Control Panel to rebind the sensor to the relay and then the relay to the Control Panel. Apart from also having to reset the water temperature, no problems. However, since then I have regularly, it scan be several times during the day, had the Panel telling me "Comms Fault - Boiler Relay". For 18 months I have had no problems and this has only just started since replacing the batteries in the sensor. I reset the boiler relay and re-bound it with the Panel but it has made no difference. I have noticed that on some occasions the fault log has reported the same fault right to the very minute at the same time as the previous day. Everything though works as it should.

    Anybody any idea why this should suddenly happen?

    My system does still work as it should, just this regular fault report yet it's not a fault as it works. Clearly it is putting out a signal every so often whether it needs to be on or off and getting a negative reply. It even happens when the boiler is fired up and running according to schedule but the system is not interrupted. I'd say it happens up to about 5 or 6 times during the day.

    One thought, I may be way off but I suppose possible, is that the new batteries in the temperature being new have produced a stronger signal than the old, the sensor is more than 30cms below the boiler relay, but perhaps possible despite the difference apart being OK the signal strength is greater and interfering.

    Comment

    • G4RHL
      Automated Home Legend
      • Jan 2015
      • 1580

      #3
      Yes my fault report is just as regular and goes on. It happens at 06:04 and then at 09:14 each day. And then I get the odd one during the day but not always the same time during the day. The morning ones of 06:04 and 09:14 are a constant. Neither ties in with a schedule. The system still works as it should.

      Comment

      • DBMandrake
        Automated Home Legend
        • Sep 2014
        • 2361

        #4
        A problem like this is most likely going to be a binding issue, probably a duplicate binding, where the evotouch thinks there are two devices bound to the same function.

        Keep in mind that a BDR91 can support up to four different bindings to it (from multiple devices or from different functions on the same device) so the potential is there to accidentally bind the same device twice to the Evotouch, either to different functions or to the same function. Thus it continues to work through one of the bindings, but the other messed up binding causes a recurring fault log entry. I've had something similar myself when messing around with bindings and reassigning devices to different functions.

        Unfortunately the Evotouch interface doesn't really provide enough detailed information to show exactly where the problem is, so the solution is usually to carefully clear the bindings at both ends (eg both at the controller and at the remote end) and then rebind.

        This also resulted in having to go into configuration in the Control Panel to rebind the sensor to the relay and then the relay to the Control Panel. Apart from also having to reset the water temperature, no problems. However, since then I have regularly, it scan be several times during the day, had the Panel telling me "Comms Fault - Boiler Relay".
        I'm guessing that as part of rebinding the hot water you have have also had to rebind the boiler relay on the Evotouch ? Did you clear the bindings on the boiler relay first ? Here is what I would try:

        Clear the bindings on both your BDR91's - hold down their buttons for 15 seconds until you get the continuous rapid flash. Then in the Evotouch go into settings and change boiler control from boiler relay to none, and change the hot water configuration to none as well, so that you now have no hot water configured and no boiler control configured. Wait a few minutes then remove the evotouch from its dock, remove the batteries for a few seconds then reinsert them, so as to reboot the evotouch.

        Now go through the process of enabling hot water control, bind your hot water sensor and BDR91 hot water relay, and also re-bind your boiler control BDR91.

        The advice of removing the batteries between removing the old bindings and re-adding the new ones comes from Richard at the evohomeshop (you'll find his full procedure in another thread here somewhere) and it sounds like not doing this can sometimes cause issues as something "lingers" in memory from the old binding until a reboot.

        Either that or you did not clear the bindings on the BDR91's themselves before rebinding. In my experience when doing rebinding it's best to always explicitly clear the bindings at both ends of the wireless link, even if you're only going to rebind the device back to the same function. That means clearing the binding both on the evotouch and the actuator - whether that actuator is a BDR91 or an HR92, or any other actuator.
        Last edited by DBMandrake; 14 June 2016, 09:37 AM.

        Comment

        • G4RHL
          Automated Home Legend
          • Jan 2015
          • 1580

          #5
          Thanks that could well be the reason. The thought of doing a rebind both ends does not appeal for so far as aware as I then need to do everything, all the HR92s as well.

          Comment

          • DBMandrake
            Automated Home Legend
            • Sep 2014
            • 2361

            #6
            You shouldn't need to rebind any HR92's.

            Just don't use the guided config, use the manual options, and only change the hot water and boiler relay configuration.
            Last edited by DBMandrake; 14 June 2016, 02:06 PM.

            Comment

            • G4RHL
              Automated Home Legend
              • Jan 2015
              • 1580

              #7
              Thanks. I guessed that may be the way forward. I was hesitant at going manual in case I had to re-do everything. What you say though is logical. I wiped one end of the devices (the relay) but not the other end (the Panel) so it has to have residual memory of the former pairing and it tries to find it. Perhaps another bit for the manual to advise users.

              Comment

              • top brake
                Automated Home Legend
                • Feb 2015
                • 837

                #8
                you didn't need to rebind the CS92 when you replaced batteries

                why did you feel that you needed to?
                I work for Resideo, posts are personal and my own views.

                Comment

                • G4RHL
                  Automated Home Legend
                  • Jan 2015
                  • 1580

                  #9
                  Originally posted by top brake View Post
                  you didn't need to rebind the CS92 when you replaced batteries

                  why did you feel that you needed to?
                  Have been away, hence the delay in responding. I had to rebind the CS92 as the battery failure caused it to loose its connection to the relay and the relay to the panel. They stopped existing until I went through the rebinding process.

                  Comment

                  • top brake
                    Automated Home Legend
                    • Feb 2015
                    • 837

                    #10
                    Originally posted by G4RHL View Post
                    Have been away, hence the delay in responding. I had to rebind the CS92 as the battery failure caused it to loose its connection to the relay and the relay to the panel. They stopped existing until I went through the rebinding process.
                    This is a common misconception

                    The binding remains

                    All you needed to do was fit fresh batteries and wait 5 mins
                    I work for Resideo, posts are personal and my own views.

                    Comment

                    • G4RHL
                      Automated Home Legend
                      • Jan 2015
                      • 1580

                      #11
                      Originally posted by top brake View Post
                      This is a common misconception

                      The binding remains<

                      All you needed to do was fit fresh batteries and wait 5 mins
                      Did that as was aware it takes time to reconnect. Waited nearer 10 minutes.

                      However, I have hopefully sorted the problem by wiping the relays, deleting reference thereto in the panel and then reinstalling. Will see if at 06:04 tomorrow morning it reports a fault. It ought not to.

                      ***
                      It is now gone past 06:04 on the next day and no faults all works as it should.Thanks DBMandrake for pointing me in this direction.
                      Last edited by G4RHL; 27 June 2016, 06:43 AM. Reason: An addendum

                      Comment

                      • DBMandrake
                        Automated Home Legend
                        • Sep 2014
                        • 2361

                        #12
                        Originally posted by G4RHL View Post
                        It is now gone past 06:04 on the next day and no faults all works as it should.Thanks DBMandrake for pointing me in this direction.
                        And another day has passed - is it still OK ? I'm assuming so or we would have heard back.

                        Just goes to show that binding errors can cause "faults" to be logged that don't appear to cause any detrimental effect on normal functioning. There needs to be a bit more diagnostic information in the installer menu to help troubleshoot such problems IMHO instead of relying on "remove everything that isn't working and add it back in again"...

                        Comment

                        • G4RHL
                          Automated Home Legend
                          • Jan 2015
                          • 1580

                          #13
                          Originally posted by DBMandrake View Post
                          And another day has passed - is it still OK ? I'm assuming so or we would have heard back.

                          Just goes to show that binding errors can cause "faults" to be logged that don't appear to cause any detrimental effect on normal functioning. There needs to be a bit more diagnostic information in the installer menu to help troubleshoot such problems IMHO instead of relying on "remove everything that isn't working and add it back in again"...
                          Yes, another day passed and all is fine. No faults in my log. I think what is good about the system is how robust it is. It is not the fault of the system and the devices. It's me who ended up double binding the Panel. Perhaps better instructions will help. But it all happily reboots to where it was and continues to get on with its job. I changed my wifi router yesterday and it took some time for the Panel to see the new wifi (it was alongside the router) but it did and carries on as before.

                          A different issue for me to resolve is one of my HR92s goes through batteries every three months. Proximity to the Panel is not the issue. It all keeps me out of mischief!

                          Comment

                          • DBMandrake
                            Automated Home Legend
                            • Sep 2014
                            • 2361

                            #14
                            Three months sounds unusually short. Are you using full stroke mode ?

                            I've only had one HR92 need batteries replacing so far - after about 15 months. The other 4 HR92's I have I have only had for about 9 months and they are still showing 2 bars with no battery warnings on the original factory supplied batteries. So for me so far a bit over a year seems to be typical.

                            Comment

                            • HenGus
                              Automated Home Legend
                              • May 2014
                              • 1001

                              #15
                              Originally posted by DBMandrake View Post
                              Three months sounds unusually short. Are you using full stroke mode ?

                              I've only had one HR92 need batteries replacing so far - after about 15 months. The other 4 HR92's I have I have only had for about 9 months and they are still showing 2 bars with no battery warnings on the original factory supplied batteries. So for me so far a bit over a year seems to be typical.
                              I am not sure that the battery indication on the HR92s is a reliable indication of remaining life. I changed the batteries in an HR92 yesterday as the controller was showing a battery low fault/re-set condition. The HR92 was showing 2 bars. The batteries were the originals and were 2 years old.

                              Comment

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