How are messages actually sent? One Zone not working - how to debug :(

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  • g6ejd
    Automated Home Guru
    • Oct 2016
    • 153

    #31
    it was seeing all the traffic, but I applied a filter, I'll try Wireshark.

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    • bruce_miranda
      Automated Home Legend
      • Jul 2014
      • 2307

      #32
      If you are looking through this for fun, then go ahead and let us know what you find out. But it's not going to take you any closer to finding out why your HR92 isnt working as you intended. All comms to them, even via your phone is via a radio device, controller/hgi80/rxcomm

      Comment

      • paulockenden
        Automated Home Legend
        • Apr 2015
        • 1719

        #33
        Being pedantic, your phone makes a request to the API running on Honeywell's alarmnet servers. Which in turn sends a command to your controller (that bit you will see with wireshark, although not the packet contents as it's https). And then the controller sends the setpoint to the HR92 as a Ramses II packet at 868MHz.

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        • bruce_miranda
          Automated Home Legend
          • Jul 2014
          • 2307

          #34
          Speaking of API I noticed Honeywell seem to now publish a help / usage notes for the WebApi

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          • paulockenden
            Automated Home Legend
            • Apr 2015
            • 1719

            #35
            Is it for API V1 or V2?

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            • DanD
              Automated Home Ninja
              • Feb 2016
              • 250

              #36
              @gcpeters

              Based upon your very detailed and exhaustive testing of the problem and particularly the fact that a manual override on the HR92 correctly updates the setpoint on the Evohome controller, my guess would be that it's a problem with the HR92. It does sound like just the heat demand message is either not being correctly sent to, or received by the controller. If you have the patience, you could test this even further by swapping the HR92 with one in another zone and confirming that the behaviour is repeated in the zone you've moved it to or even just set-up a new dummy zone and place the HR92 right next to Evohome controller. If you see exactly the same behaviour after completely resetting the HR92, then I think you've confirmed that it has a very unusual fault and needs to be replaced.

              Dan

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              • paulockenden
                Automated Home Legend
                • Apr 2015
                • 1719

                #37
                Originally posted by g6ejd View Post
                it was seeing all the traffic, but I applied a filter, I'll try Wireshark.
                Just had a thought - were you doing this via a wireless NIC? If so, you'll never see all of the traffic because your AP will be acting like a switch. To sniff the traffic you need a NIC (wired, not wlan), in promiscuous mode. And upstream from your wireless router. If you're on ADSL or VDSL the best place is between the router and the modem. Oh, and you'll need to connect via a hub rather than a switch, otherwise the traffic will be filtered.

                Apologies if this is teaching granny to suck eggs.

                Comment

                • bruce_miranda
                  Automated Home Legend
                  • Jul 2014
                  • 2307

                  #38
                  Originally posted by DanD View Post
                  @gcpeters

                  Based upon your very detailed and exhaustive testing of the problem and particularly the fact that a manual override on the HR92 correctly updates the setpoint on the Evohome controller, my guess would be that it's a problem with the HR92. It does sound like just the heat demand message is either not being correctly sent to, or received by the controller. If you have the patience, you could test this even further by swapping the HR92 with one in another zone and confirming that the behaviour is repeated in the zone you've moved it to or even just set-up a new dummy zone and place the HR92 right next to Evohome controller. If you see exactly the same behaviour after completely resetting the HR92, then I think you've confirmed that it has a very unusual fault and needs to be replaced.

                  Dan
                  I had exactly this issue but with an HR80. Whichever zone i bound it to, it would not accept the setpoint from the controller. But you could set one locally and that would work.

                  Comment

                  • g6ejd
                    Automated Home Guru
                    • Oct 2016
                    • 153

                    #39
                    Originally posted by paulockenden View Post
                    Just had a thought - were you doing this via a wireless NIC? If so, you'll never see all of the traffic because your AP will be acting like a switch. To sniff the traffic you need a NIC (wired, not wlan), in promiscuous mode. And upstream from your wireless router. If you're on ADSL or VDSL the best place is between the router and the modem. Oh, and you'll need to connect via a hub rather than a switch, otherwise the traffic will be filtered.

                    Apologies if this is teaching granny to suck eggs.
                    Thanks, I was using a wired NIC to my laptop, it said promiscuous mode is selected and I was at the back of the Sky Router via a hub. I can see all the other traffic, including Https communications when e.g. I connect to google etc. I can also sniff/see the sky authentication messages too, so I think it's seeing all traffic. I'll try again tomorrow with Wireshark and compare to the MS variant and check the settings

                    Comment

                    • bruce_miranda
                      Automated Home Legend
                      • Jul 2014
                      • 2307

                      #40
                      You need to be on wireshark before the Sky Router, not using the port behind it.

                      Comment

                      • g6ejd
                        Automated Home Guru
                        • Oct 2016
                        • 153

                        #41
                        The latest Sky router has an in-built modem so not passible, although I understand one of the four ports is a so-called WAN port, I'll experiment - for other readers, this is for that reason alone, not fault finding an HR92 as this thread is going off topic a little.

                        Comment

                        • DBMandrake
                          Automated Home Legend
                          • Sep 2014
                          • 2361

                          #42
                          You can't do passive promiscuous sniffing of encrypted wifi networks, even if your laptop knows the PSK for the network and most wifi adaptor drivers don't really support a promiscuous mode anyway. To sniff in this way you'd need to use an Open network and a wireless adaptor whose driver really did support promiscuous mode with Wireshark.

                          A much better way that is usually the only feasible way to do sniffing of a wireless connection is to have a wireless router that is separate from your broadband router, and either an old fashioned hub, or a switch that supports port mirroring. Most managed switches - even the cheap £30 8 port D-Link one I have can do port mirroring.

                          You plug your switch into your broadband router, plug your laptop into the switch and plug your second wireless router into the switch as well. Configure the switch to mirror all traffic on the second wireless routers port to the laptops port. This will give you the same result as using an old fashioned hub but without the speed penalty.

                          Configure your evohome to connect to this second wireless network not your normal one. Put your laptop in promiscuous mode over Ethernet.

                          Now you can monitor all traffic from the Evohome back to the Honeywell servers. If Honeywell have done their job right it will all be encrypted and inscrutable though...
                          Last edited by DBMandrake; 17 October 2016, 10:54 PM.

                          Comment

                          • paulockenden
                            Automated Home Legend
                            • Apr 2015
                            • 1719

                            #43
                            If I remember correctly (it was a long time ago when I did this) the initial handshake is unencrypted, but then after that everything is hidden inside an SSL tunnel.

                            Comment

                            • bruce_miranda
                              Automated Home Legend
                              • Jul 2014
                              • 2307

                              #44
                              Originally posted by paulockenden View Post
                              Is it for API V1 or V2?
                              If you hit this URL now https://tccna.honeywell.com/WebAPI/ you get presented with a Help login screen. Where if you enter the details we know the App uses, you get access to the WebAPI help pages.

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