batteries for hr92s

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  • sandyman
    Automated Home Sr Member
    • Mar 2016
    • 85

    batteries for hr92s

    so my system has been in a year using the batteries supplied in the box with the hr92's. I've had my first couple of hr92's reporting low battery - then go flat a day later.

    what batteries do people use? I have read some mention of lithium rechargeables but wary of this, as low current drain over long period is not in my experience a good scenario for them. is there a particular high end non-rechargeable that works significantly better than the usual 100packs from maplins or similar?

    ta
  • paulockenden
    Automated Home Legend
    • Apr 2015
    • 1719

    #2
    I'm using these non-rechargeable lithium batteries.

    Too soon to know how long they'll last.

    Comment

    • DBMandrake
      Automated Home Legend
      • Sep 2014
      • 2361

      #3
      A lot of the benefit of non-rechargeable Lithium over Alkaline is with high current loads like cameras and toy cars.

      Standard Alkaline batteries loose a lot of "effective" mA/hr capacity at high current drain whereas Lithium don't to nearly the same degree, however an HR92 is not what I would consider a high current drain device, even for AA sized batteries. Yes the motor probably uses a bit (maybe half an amp at most ?) when trying to close the pin, however this only lasts a few seconds at a time and occurs infrequently - its long enough between each motor movement for an Alkaline battery to "recover" and not lose significant effective capacity through prolonged high current drain.

      So whilst a Lithium battery would probably last longer in an HR92 I'm not sure that it would do so to the same proportion as the price increase. So it would last a bit longer but cost you more per year.

      A rechargeable lithium I would not use at all - the only rechargeable supported by the HR92 is NiMH, if you put some other kind of rechargeable in it would not be calibrated for that battery type as every type of battery has its own characteristic discharge curve - if the wrong type is selected it won't know when the battery truly is discharged and may not even warn you at all before going dead, or warn you when it has plenty of life left. So setting the battery type in the HR92 settings to match your batteries is important if you want the battery indicator and battery warnings to work properly.

      I would not use NiMH either - they have a high self discharge compared to a non-rechargeable battery and aren't well suited to a very long life low current drain application like this, it's a bit strange to me that the option is even included in the HR92.
      Last edited by DBMandrake; 16 November 2016, 01:57 PM.

      Comment

      • Little Tinker
        Automated Home Jr Member
        • Nov 2016
        • 38

        #4
        I was a bit surprised that some of the new valves had batteries that were already one bar short of full in the packet.

        It got me thinking about what to put in there, and I was going to look at whether LiFe ones might be a good choice. ISTR they have similar capacity to alkaline, but lower self-discharge rates.

        Comment

        • DBMandrake
          Automated Home Legend
          • Sep 2014
          • 2361

          #5
          Originally posted by Little Tinker View Post
          I was a bit surprised that some of the new valves had batteries that were already one bar short of full in the packet.

          It got me thinking about what to put in there, and I was going to look at whether LiFe ones might be a good choice. ISTR they have similar capacity to alkaline, but lower self-discharge rates.
          The 3 bar battery indicator on the HR92 is very inaccurate through lack of resolution.

          I find that I only get a 3 bar reading for a month or so after installation, then it drops to 2 bars and stays there for another 18 months...

          Comment

          • sandyman
            Automated Home Sr Member
            • Mar 2016
            • 85

            #6
            Originally posted by DBMandrake View Post
            A lot of the benefit of non-rechargeable Lithium over Alkaline is with high current loads like cameras and toy cars.

            So whilst a Lithium battery would probably last longer in an HR92 I'm not sure that it would do so to the same proportion as the price increase. So it would last a bit longer but cost you more per year.

            I would not use NiMH either - they have a high self discharge compared to a non-rechargeable battery and aren't well suited to a very long life low current drain application like this, it's a bit strange to me that the option is even included in the HR92.
            so I guess you just use standard decent alkalines? of which you can get a pack of a 100 for 15quid from maplins so the lithiums would have to be hugely better life to be worth the economics.

            just had a my second zone report in low, so it seems like 12 months is what you get from the free-with-the-hr92 ones.

            Comment

            • DBMandrake
              Automated Home Legend
              • Sep 2014
              • 2361

              #7
              Originally posted by sandyman View Post
              so I guess you just use standard decent alkalines? of which you can get a pack of a 100 for 15quid from maplins so the lithiums would have to be hugely better life to be worth the economics.
              Yeah I just use standard decent Alkalines.
              just had a my second zone report in low, so it seems like 12 months is what you get from the free-with-the-hr92 ones.
              That is going to be highly dependent on your system.

              Factors like how complicated your schedule is, (lots of set point changes per day or few) how active the room is, (static, or people coming and going all the time opening and closing the door) whether your TRV valves are stiff or easy to push down, and whether the room maintains a steady temperature or whether it tends to oscillate up and down. (which obviously would cause a lot more motor activity in the HR92)

              I got 18 months from my first HR92 until I started getting occasional low battery warnings in the fault log, but it still showed 2 bars on the HR92 and still worked fine, however I decided to replace them anyway.

              The other HR92's have all done over 12 months on original batteries so far and no warnings from any of them yet. I haven't actually had the system long enough (HR92's have been brought progressively) to see what the average battery life of all my zones is yet!

              Comment

              • paulockenden
                Automated Home Legend
                • Apr 2015
                • 1719

                #8
                I don't know what the cut-off voltage is for the HR92, but once you get to around 1.1 - 1.15V the Energiser Ultimate Lithium is the cheapest battery on the market!

                See http://www.batteryshowdown.com/results-hi.html - scroll down and adjust the slider.

                For me, though, the reason I'm switching to them is mostly convenience. It's a pain when the batteries go flat (especially in zones with multiple rads, as the controller doesn't tell you which one has died). So anything that prolongs the life is worth paying a bit extra for.

                P.

                Comment

                • DBMandrake
                  Automated Home Legend
                  • Sep 2014
                  • 2361

                  #9
                  Originally posted by paulockenden View Post
                  I don't know what the cut-off voltage is for the HR92, but once you get to around 1.1 - 1.15V the Energiser Ultimate Lithium is the cheapest battery on the market!

                  See http://www.batteryshowdown.com/results-hi.html - scroll down and adjust the slider.

                  For me, though, the reason I'm switching to them is mostly convenience. It's a pain when the batteries go flat (especially in zones with multiple rads, as the controller doesn't tell you which one has died). So anything that prolongs the life is worth paying a bit extra for.

                  P.
                  Interesting set of data there, although I would point out that it is a high current drain test - 1000mA on an AA sized cell. This would tend to skew the results towards Lithium (which excels at high drain) and away from Alkaline, which might not neccessarily give a valid conclusion if £/month is the goal.

                  I don't think the HR92 would draw nearly that much current even when operating the motor, and now that you've got me curious I'm going to measure the current drawn by an HR92 both while the motor is winding the pin down (highest current drain) and while it is idle.

                  It also occurs to me that we don't know the percentage of total battery consumption that comes from the brief high current motor activation's, and how much comes from hour after hour, day after day of the device being in low power idle mode while it is not making valve adjustments. Even if the motor does draw quite a bit of current the extremely low duty cycle of the motor may mean that current drain while idle is the major determining factor.

                  I'll report back with some measurements when I get a chance to make them.

                  Comment

                  • paulockenden
                    Automated Home Legend
                    • Apr 2015
                    • 1719

                    #10
                    Originally posted by DBMandrake View Post
                    I'll report back with some measurements when I get a chance to make them.
                    Says the man who says he has no time for playing with stuff... ;-)

                    P.

                    Comment

                    • DBMandrake
                      Automated Home Legend
                      • Sep 2014
                      • 2361

                      #11
                      Originally posted by paulockenden View Post
                      Says the man who says he has no time for playing with stuff... ;-)

                      P.
                      Busted.

                      It's only a couple of minutes to flip up the top and connect an ammeter in place of the shorting bar though...

                      Comment

                      • sandyman
                        Automated Home Sr Member
                        • Mar 2016
                        • 85

                        #12
                        Originally posted by paulockenden View Post
                        I don't know what the cut-off voltage is for the HR92, but once you get to around 1.1 - 1.15V the Energiser Ultimate Lithium is the cheapest battery on the market!

                        See http://www.batteryshowdown.com/results-hi.html - scroll down and adjust the slider.

                        For me, though, the reason I'm switching to them is mostly convenience. It's a pain when the batteries go flat (especially in zones with multiple rads, as the controller doesn't tell you which one has died). So anything that prolongs the life is worth paying a bit extra for.

                        P.
                        hmm, doesnt seem like they allow for multipack pricing though, I think that massively influences £/month (maplin would be 0.15 not 0.64 for example). With mine, I only have to look at the hr92 on the rad to see which one is down to 1 bar? not that hard ;-).

                        If I measure the voltage across the pair of AA's i just took out does that give us the cut-off point, or is it only valid with load ? I avoided all the electrical power related modules at uni so not so hot on that.

                        Comment

                        • sandyman
                          Automated Home Sr Member
                          • Mar 2016
                          • 85

                          #13
                          Originally posted by DBMandrake View Post

                          That is going to be highly dependent on your system.
                          yes its the zones that have the most setpoint changes, the most human traffic and the most heat variation - kitchen and hall - that have gone first after 12 mo so no real surprise there. All valves brand new honeywell valencia at time of evo install so it won't be down to that. was really just polling to see what those who have had systems a while are getting out of it.

                          Comment

                          • g6ejd
                            Automated Home Guru
                            • Oct 2016
                            • 153

                            #14
                            I think nothing will beat Lithium for capacity, a NimH or NiCad can't get close and even a standard dry cell will beat the Nicads/NimH. I use a lot of batteries in my model aircraft and always come back to Lithium as they have the best price/performance characteristics. Actually the batteries supplied by Honeywell are probably going to be really good, but not seen them for sale.

                            Comment

                            • IvanOpinion
                              Automated Home Jr Member
                              • Dec 2015
                              • 48

                              #15
                              I go for Amazon Performance alkalines, because they claim 10 year anti-leakage. Not that alkalines often leak, but if a battery leaks, that's a £50 valve ruined, so I'd rather minimise the risk.

                              Comment

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