Evohome is Noisy - please help me

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  • paulockenden
    Automated Home Legend
    • Apr 2015
    • 1719

    #91
    I concur too.

    I hope that if you do carry out your threat to post a 'review' all over social media you'll point to this thread, and mention that the majority of other Evohome users seem not to be as bothered by the noise as you are.

    Comment

    • chrisgare
      Automated Home Guru
      • Dec 2013
      • 182

      #92
      The large majority I think Paul... The clanking of my 15mm copper piping when heating up is much louder than the HR92s. It's been quite warm at night in the last few days and the three radiators in my bedroom have not been coming on at 07:00. My half-asleep reaction was that I worried whether the heating had come on at all and I had to go out onto the landing to take a look!

      Comment

      • Arrghh!
        Automated Home Sr Member
        • Dec 2015
        • 73

        #93
        Originally posted by Sentry1 View Post
        One further question for you "Argghh!" - did you end up using an HR92 from your mum's house? Was an ST3 in the mix here?

        Thanks
        Not yet. I may do that at some point, but I really don't think it's an issue with different batches of HR92s.

        I wouldn't call myself noise obsessive. I did spend, frankly, a ridiculous amount of time and money recently on a new cooker hood for our kitchen. We had put up with a very noisy hood for many years and it was something I was determined to change when we renewed our kitchen last year. I ordered a custom made hood, with remote fan unit and all the additional building work that entailed, only to find the noise was hardly any different! The thing was though that I knew it could be quieter. So that led me to spend more money first relocating the motor and eventually swapping it out for a different type with additional ducting etc. etc. Inthe end, I've got my quiet cooker hood and I'm glad I persevered.

        I'm sure we would have lived with the noisier one if there hadn't had been a way to make it quieter, but I knew I could make it quieter and took it on as a sort of challenge to my determination and ingenuity.

        So I wouldn't criticise Evohome for being too noisy. As I said earlier in the thread, I realise they have to build the components to a cost. Yes, the HR92 could have been designed to be quieter by making the body out of a different material. Maybe someone really clever with a 3D printer could have a go at redesigning it and printing a few test housings? Go on, you know you want to...

        No, the real reason I'm playing around with noise meters and valves is because I think maybe I might find a way to make them quieter and that's a little challenge for me. I might not get anywhere with it, but it's worth a try I think.

        I'm going to take my noise meter to my mum's this week and see if her actuators really are much quieter than mine first, just in case I was convincing myself otherwise before.

        The other experiment I considered was getting hold of an old radiator and pipes and assembling a test rig to enable me to swap valves and test different actuators much more easily than I can do now.

        I'm not obsessed. Honest!

        Comment

        • paulockenden
          Automated Home Legend
          • Apr 2015
          • 1719

          #94
          I'd still like to see someone who thinks their system is noisy do an experiment where they wedge a towel or something TIGHTLY down the back of a radiator, and do something similar to brace the pipe that feeds the HR92. Just to eliminate resonance effects amplifying the noise.

          P.

          Comment

          • DBMandrake
            Automated Home Legend
            • Sep 2014
            • 2361

            #95
            Originally posted by paulockenden View Post
            I'd still like to see someone who thinks their system is noisy do an experiment where they wedge a towel or something TIGHTLY down the back of a radiator, and do something similar to brace the pipe that feeds the HR92. Just to eliminate resonance effects amplifying the noise.
            Indeed. A radiator is a great big sounding board for any vibration that is mechanically passed to it.

            Case in point, our new bathroom radiator is an 800x600 double panel single convector (type 21) that is fed via 8mm microbore. As the original radiator install was archaic single end feed (both pipes entering on the left) the feed for the right now comes up by the left of the radiator, passes behind it then bends in a loop in the bottom right corner to enter the radiator.

            I had noticed that when I balanced the radiator that there was a rather loud "hiss" that could be heard any time the radiator was running - a lot more than you'd expect from the lockshield valve. I noticed that if I touched the loop of 8mm copper where it came out of the radiator and around the back it quietened it right down. I then realised that the pipe was actually touching the back of the radiator where it passed behind it. I bent the pipe slightly so that it was no longer touching - noise gone. Or at least back down to a normal amount of hiss.

            The noise of the water rushing through the 8mm copper pipe was being directly transmitted to the back of the radiator panel through physical contact, which was then acting like a large speaker / sounding board...
            Last edited by DBMandrake; 12 December 2016, 01:00 PM.

            Comment

            • Arrghh!
              Automated Home Sr Member
              • Dec 2015
              • 73

              #96
              Originally posted by paulockenden View Post
              I'd still like to see someone who thinks their system is noisy do an experiment where they wedge a towel or something TIGHTLY down the back of a radiator, and do something similar to brace the pipe that feeds the HR92. Just to eliminate resonance effects amplifying the noise.

              P.
              I did that yesterday but it didn't make much difference. I was testing on a 1200 double rad and I think the thin vanes between the two panels might be the biggest culprit rather than the panels themselves. Either way, to me, the majority of the noise seems to be radiated from the body of the HR92.

              A low-tech way to narrow down a noise source is to stick a length of rubber tube in your ear and move the other end around until you hear the loudest noise.

              Comment

              • Arrghh!
                Automated Home Sr Member
                • Dec 2015
                • 73

                #97
                Here are some numbers for those interested.

                The noise was measured with a Type 2 meter (accurate to + or - 1dB) set to dBA weighting, fast response, low scale and positioned on the same level as the HR92 and 0.5m from the LCD display.

                If you are going to use a phone app to compare readings, you should measure in the same way and at the same distance and bear in mind you may not get comparable results. Instead, you should concentrate on the relative readings you get when trying different HR92s, valves, coverings etc.

                1. Background noise level (quiet room, no traffic noise) - 34.6 dBA
                2. HR92 not fitted to valve (peak reading during 3 opening and closing cycles) - 35.1 dBA
                3. HR92 fitted to unbranded valve. Between 4 HR92s I saw a peak of between 38.4 and 39.6 dBA during 3 opening/closing cycles, so quite a variation between different HR92s.
                4. HR92 covered in sound-deadening foam around the back of its body - 36.3dBA
                5. HR92 uncovered fitted to Honeywell Valencia valve - 38.2dBA

                Waking up this morning and hearing the actuator, I have to say that I do think the same HR92 fitted to the Valencia valve is actually a bit quieter and these readings bear that out.

                I'm going to take one of my HR92s to my mum's house later this week and compare it with one of her's on the Travis Perkins valves she has fitted. I think that's going to show if there really is a big gain to be had from using different valves and it will prove whether different batches of HR92 makes a difference.

                Comment

                • radar2016
                  Automated Home Jr Member
                  • Mar 2016
                  • 43

                  #98
                  Originally posted by paulockenden View Post
                  I'd still like to see someone who thinks their system is noisy do an experiment where they wedge a towel or something TIGHTLY down the back of a radiator, and do something similar to brace the pipe that feeds the HR92. Just to eliminate resonance effects amplifying the noise.

                  P.
                  I think there is a lot of truth in you statement,not that I ever thought that my Evohome was noisy, in fact the opposite, I was following this post, and wondered what it was all about.

                  I knocked all my rads down to 5C, then went round the house with my iPhone and raised the setting to 20C on each unit and listened interestingly the only one making more noise than any of the others was a one on a twin rad.

                  While my units are HR80UK and not HR92 the relevance is that inorder to be able to read the screen, the battery boxes on these units were jammed tight against the wall, therefore damping any sound from all units with exception of the one on the twin rad

                  I had previously thought that HR80s made more noise than HR92. Prior to this I was not aware the sound I was hearing was from only one unit.

                  The sound from this unit can only be heard when the house is quiet, no fridge or freezer etc running

                  Comment

                  • Cchris
                    Automated Home Sr Member
                    • Nov 2015
                    • 95

                    #99
                    As a difference of 3dBA is barely perceptible to the human ear, then Im struggling to see how these can in any way be described as "noisy". Background noise at 34.6 and the level with an uncovered HR92 on a valve is just 3.6dBA higher.. and still below 40dBA.

                    Sitting in absolute silence in a room, yes you can hear the valves operating, but I would hardly consider them noisy. If the TV or radio is on, or the kids are playing, or the cooker is running, or the bathroom extractor, then you simply cant hear them. Almost any other noise generated in a house is louder than these valves imho, and life is simply too short to worry about making motorised radiator valves silent.

                    Comment

                    • paulockenden
                      Automated Home Legend
                      • Apr 2015
                      • 1719

                      As I said right at the start, I suspect it's mainly psychological.

                      Once a noise starts to annoy you you can't help hearing it. Your brain seems to filter it out from all of the other noises around, and bring it to the centre of your attention.

                      It doesn't even need to be annoying. How many of us in the "the noise is acceptable" camp have started to hear our HR92s more since this thread started? I know I have.

                      Not to the point where they become annoying though.

                      Comment

                      • DBMandrake
                        Automated Home Legend
                        • Sep 2014
                        • 2361

                        Originally posted by Cchris View Post
                        As a difference of 3dBA is barely perceptible to the human ear,
                        I have to take issue with that. I've spent some time building and measuring loudspeakers in the past and a 3dB change in SPL is easily audible, and a 3dB change in frequency response is plain as day.

                        The frequency response comment is relevant when you are starting with "background noise" of roughly even frequency distribution and then adding a periodic noise like a whirring motor that occurs at very specific frequencies, thus changing the overall frequency response of the summed sound. You are not just taking a specific sound and increasing its volume by 3dB.

                        A noise like a whirring motor with specific tonal characteristics can actually be distinguished even if it is "below" the background noise level. This is because the background noise level of 34.6dB is the sum of the power in all frequencies in the A weighted range, while the noise of the HR92 will be concentrated at just a few narrow harmonic frequencies. At these frequencies it is very likely 10-15dB above the noise floor of the background noise for an average dBA reading of 3dB greater.

                        Trying to make this sort of comparison with a simple dBA meter is a bit meaningless as it doesn't take into account the spectrum of either the background noise or the HR92 whirring, therefore doesn't take into account masking etc. Looking at the output of a spectrum analyser would be more useful but is a bit beyond a simple test! A spectrum analyser would show that the peaks of the HR92 noise would be a long way above the noise floor not 3dB.

                        It all comes down to how easily you are annoyed by certain kinds of noises though and what your background noise is like in the rooms whether its a problem for you or not.

                        For me I'm yet to be woken by the bedroom HR92 and I can just hear it if I'm already awake. Our 8 month old could sleep through a marching band once he's properly asleep so no problems there either.

                        I can totally see that some people might not be happy with the noises they make though, but I can't see how it could be made much quieter at an economic cost and when you consider just how much force (a lot) is required to push down the pin. It's already geared down a lot, such that it takes over 30 seconds to wind from one extreme to the other. If the noise is that much of a problem then going back to silent, manual TRV's is probably the only option.
                        Last edited by DBMandrake; 13 December 2016, 11:26 AM.

                        Comment

                        • DBMandrake
                          Automated Home Legend
                          • Sep 2014
                          • 2361

                          Originally posted by paulockenden View Post
                          It doesn't even need to be annoying. How many of us in the "the noise is acceptable" camp have started to hear our HR92s more since this thread started? I know I have.

                          Not to the point where they become annoying though.
                          I've always heard mine, but never found it obtrusive, and they don't bother me any more after this discussion. The hallway and bathroom ones are quite noisy due to the acoustics of those rooms, but I don't particularly care about those rooms being quiet.

                          The living room one is nice and quiet both because of carpet and sofas, and the fact that there is no direct line of sight from the listeners ears to the HR92 due to the positioning of the sofas. This helps a lot I think as only reflections that have bounced off something soft and absorbent will reach the listener.

                          Likewise in the bedroom although the floor is bare laminate you have a massive big duvet acting as sound absorbent material, also the layout of the room and wardrobes means that once again there is no direct line of sight from the HR92 to our ears when we're in bed, I have to strain to hear it in a quiet room if I'm already awake. If there is any traffic noise going by it drowns it out.

                          Only the big long sweeps from open to closed or closed to open are noisy - the small adjustments made to maintain the temperature are both short and generally quiet. We have the bedroom scheduled to 16 degrees through the night rising to 18 in the morning so the valve is already at the opening threshold to maintain 16 degrees so doesn't have to turn much to increase the room to 18. If it was scheduled to 5 through the night I'm sure it would make more noise since the motor would be turning for a good 30 seconds to open instead of maybe 2-3 seconds.

                          Comment

                          • paulockenden
                            Automated Home Legend
                            • Apr 2015
                            • 1719

                            Interesting that this thread hasn't altered your perception of the noise. It certainly has here. Wonder what others have found?

                            Comment

                            • Arrghh!
                              Automated Home Sr Member
                              • Dec 2015
                              • 73

                              How annoying it is depends on your particular circumstances. I have been woken by the HR92 in my bedroom, but then it is approx. 2 metres from my ear when I'm lying in bed with direct line of sight.

                              If the rad was on the other side of the bedroom, I'm sure I'd hardly be able to hear it.

                              I'm not bothered and don't really notice the other HR92s in my house, apart from one in the living room which again is about 2m from where I usually sit.

                              I would like to find a way to make those two actuators quieter if I can, but I'll live with them if I can't. I certainly wouldn't uninstall Evohome because of it.

                              Comment

                              • paulockenden
                                Automated Home Legend
                                • Apr 2015
                                • 1719

                                If you have a separate room stat I wonder whether a length of pipe lagging slid over the HR92 would work? You could arrange it to that it overlapped the top and bottom, and maybe even fill in the openings at each end.

                                My only concern would be you might cook the batteries.

                                Comment

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