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Thread: Ideal Vogue & Opentherm via Honeywell T6 Lyric (wired version)

  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by dty View Post
    When you say “low enough”, is it getting to the lowest power it can? If so, there’s nothing more that can be done. If your boiler has a low power output of, say, 6kWh, and it’s a 5kWh day, it’s going to have to cycle.
    It can ramp lower down to 41c if I put it into service mode minimum rate which fires the burner at the minimum rate. Based on tonight’s heating conditions and outside temp.

  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by richardc1983 View Post
    It can ramp lower down to 41c if I put it into service mode minimum rate which fires the burner at the minimum rate. Based on tonight’s heating conditions and outside temp.
    Without knowing what the delta-T across the heat exchanger and the flow rate are, that doesn’t say an awful lot.

  3. #113
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    What an absolute disgrace ideal are.

    I’m still having the same issues, ideal are blaming the t6 and are wanting me to remove the the lyric and go for a diff opentherm controller from another manufacturer of my choice at their cost. However there is nothing else out there that will do the same (internet connectivity and the home location, as well as apple home kit enabled etc) and I’m fond of Honeywell and trust them as market leaders.

    They have messed me around for over a year now, for the last 6weeks they have been testing a pcb modification to resolve my issues then on the day the engineer was due to come tried to cancel the appointment to which I refused and they managed to get him out. Then when their engineer came to fit it then it was realised he had the wrong PCB, they had been testing it for the wrong boiler - mines the gen 1 vogue and they had been doing it on the gen 2 - newer Vogue.

    Furious about this and after all this messing about I requested they swap my gen 1 for a gen 2. Now at the thought the opentherm is likely not as compatible on the gen 1 as the gen 2 due to them having tinkered and messed about with opentherm on the boiler they are saying I need to choose a diff controller. All this because they are now saying them swapping the boiler for a gen 2 boiler will not resolve the issues I’m experiencing. For example undershooting and overshooting of set temp. The gas burner comes on at full throttle when it fires even though lyric is asking for a low flow temp meaning burner cycles on and off constantly cos it comes on too high meaning flow temp quickly exceeds what is being asked of it.... video links attached of this behaviour. For me the issue above is because it doesn’t fire at the minimum rate and then ramp up it fires straight away at maximum rate than tries to ramp down. Which is not how opentherm should be running - low and slow I believe is the key.

    Yesterday they offered me a new opentherm controller of my choice from a company called Theben or the gen 2 boiler. I chose the gen 2 boiler to which today they now say they can’t do that as the director won’t sign it off cos research and development say it won’t fix my issues and are blaming the T6 again.

    Now they are telling me they need me to choose any opentherm controller of my choice and they will pay for it.

    Opentherm so far is an absolute farce and ideal are useless and know nothing about the products they sell.

  4. #114
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    Richard - I am struggling to understand why a different OT controller would work when the Lyric doesnít? I thought that Ideal had accepted that it was a boiler PCB issue? Looking at the Theben site, I can see no specific mention of OT.

    Edit: I didnít look hard enough. There seem to be 2 models (Ramses)
    Last edited by HenGus; 22nd November 2017 at 07:44 PM.

  5. #115
    Automated Home Ninja Dan_Robinson's Avatar
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    Kind Regards - Dan Robinson (Jennings Heating Ltd)

  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by richardc1983 View Post
    What an absolute disgrace ideal are.

    I’m still having the same issues, ideal are blaming the t6 and are wanting me to remove the the lyric and go for a diff opentherm controller from another manufacturer of my choice at their cost. However there is nothing else out there that will do the same (internet connectivity and the home location, as well as apple home kit enabled etc) and I’m fond of Honeywell and trust them as market leaders.

    They have messed me around for over a year now, for the last 6weeks they have been testing a pcb modification to resolve my issues then on the day the engineer was due to come tried to cancel the appointment to which I refused and they managed to get him out. Then when their engineer came to fit it then it was realised he had the wrong PCB, they had been testing it for the wrong boiler - mines the gen 1 vogue and they had been doing it on the gen 2 - newer Vogue.

    Furious about this and after all this messing about I requested they swap my gen 1 for a gen 2. Now at the thought the opentherm is likely not as compatible on the gen 1 as the gen 2 due to them having tinkered and messed about with opentherm on the boiler they are saying I need to choose a diff controller. All this because they are now saying them swapping the boiler for a gen 2 boiler will not resolve the issues I’m experiencing. For example undershooting and overshooting of set temp. The gas burner comes on at full throttle when it fires even though lyric is asking for a low flow temp meaning burner cycles on and off constantly cos it comes on too high meaning flow temp quickly exceeds what is being asked of it.... video links attached of this behaviour. For me the issue above is because it doesn’t fire at the minimum rate and then ramp up it fires straight away at maximum rate than tries to ramp down. Which is not how opentherm should be running - low and slow I believe is the key.

    Yesterday they offered me a new opentherm controller of my choice from a company called Theben or the gen 2 boiler. I chose the gen 2 boiler to which today they now say they can’t do that as the director won’t sign it off cos research and development say it won’t fix my issues and are blaming the T6 again.

    Now they are telling me they need me to choose any opentherm controller of my choice and they will pay for it.

    Opentherm so far is an absolute farce and ideal are useless and know nothing about the products they sell.


    Accept their offer of a new controller - maybe a Nest v3? If the problem is cured then at least you know the boiler is capable of firing from a low flame and isn't down to the boiler software being designed to come on high and gradually ramp down.

    Ideal must be confident the fault lies outside of their boiler, otherwise it won't reflect well on them if a substitute controller is no better.

  7. #117
    Automated Home Ninja Dan_Robinson's Avatar
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    I should point out that Theben make Ideal's OEM controllers.


    Or at least they did up until recently.
    Kind Regards - Dan Robinson (Jennings Heating Ltd)

  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by blowlamp View Post
    Accept their offer of a new controller - maybe a Nest v3? If the problem is cured then at least you know the boiler is capable of firing from a low flame and isn't down to the boiler software being designed to come on high and gradually ramp down.

    Ideal must be confident the fault lies outside of their boiler, otherwise it won't reflect well on them if a substitute controller is no better.
    The issue I have is they had accepted the issue was pcb software related but turns out now that this was for a completely different issue and for the boiler not turning the heating off if the potential dial was turned to off?

    I know the boiler is capable of firing at low flame as when I go into the menu there is a service mode minimum rate which fires the boiler and runs the burner at minimum rate this maintains a flow temp for example tonight of 42c... out of this mode the minimum it seems to get down to running on the controller is 50c even though the t6 is asking for 43c.

    Does anyone have any thoughts on Nest V3?

  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenGus View Post
    Richard - I am struggling to understand why a different OT controller would work when the Lyric doesn’t? I thought that Ideal had accepted that it was a boiler PCB issue? Looking at the Theben site, I can see no specific mention of OT.

    Edit: I didn’t look hard enough. There seem to be 2 models (Ramses)
    Yes how will a diff controller be any diff if this was unique to the t6 the issue would be with all manufacturers and people using the t6.

  10. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by richardc1983 View Post
    The issue I have is they had accepted the issue was pcb software related but turns out now that this was for a completely different issue and for the boiler not turning the heating off if the potential dial was turned to off?

    I know the boiler is capable of firing at low flame as when I go into the menu there is a service mode minimum rate which fires the boiler and runs the burner at minimum rate this maintains a flow temp for example tonight of 42c... out of this mode the minimum it seems to get down to running on the controller is 50c even though the t6 is asking for 43c.

    Does anyone have any thoughts on Nest V3?
    Why would the folks at Ideal offer to buy you a controller of your choice if they weren't confident of it fixing the problem?
    I'd take them up on it.

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