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Thread: Help with Evohome / Opentherm / Intergas

  1. #211
    Automated Home Legend top brake's Avatar
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    Because this is not a mandatory part of OpenTherm spec.

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by top brake View Post
    Because this is not a mandatory part of OpenTherm spec.
    I see, but that seems to imply it must be a mandatory part of the spec for the boiler, although I admit I don't know if it is or it isn't.

  3. #213
    Automated Home Ninja Dan_Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by top brake View Post
    Because this is not a mandatory part of OpenTherm spec.
    Seems a shame not to make the most of a feature set.

    Quote Originally Posted by blowlamp View Post
    Agreed. If it was my previous post that you had in mind, then what I meant to convey was that the flame would modulate by vertue of OpenTherm requesting a specific flow temperature from the boiler. & do.

    It only reminded me that it had been mentioned by a couple of posters.

  4. #214
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    I've cut & pasted a few things below from tinternet.

    Quote:
    While shopping for Opentherm equipment with home automation in mind, it can be useful to have some idea to which extent boilers and thermostats support the opentherm protocol. Only some messages are mandatory (ID's 0, 1, 3, 14, 17, and 25), all others may or may not implemented. (Yes Daalderop, support for MsgID 14 is mandatory.)

    Which I think refers to things in this picture.

    Capture.jpg

    So is one to conclude that MsgID 14 governs the maximum flow temperature and is required in both boilers and controllers?

  5. #215
    Automated Home Legend paulockenden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan_Robinson View Post
    Perhaps having the original question would have helped
    Many people asked what the Intergas problem was. I've seen the question several times now.

    Nobody ever said that it was that Evohome wouldn't pair with the internals directly. And someone, can't remember who, said on another forum that the problem was that Intergas couldn't support the data rate. And that it was to do with multiple vs single zones.

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulockenden View Post
    Many people asked what the Intergas problem was. I've seen the question several times now.

    Nobody ever said that it was that Evohome wouldn't pair with the internals directly. And someone, can't remember who, said on another forum that the problem was that Intergas couldn't support the data rate. And that it was to do with multiple vs single zones.
    Quote:

    It works well, but doesn't appear to modulate with multiple zones. Investigations and upgrades are in progress.

    In the mean time (as OpenTherm is an upgrade anyway) you can use weather comp and Evohome together. Unquote

    Read more: https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/i...#ixzz4pYoucZn6

  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by top brake View Post
    Because this is not a mandatory part of OpenTherm spec.
    It seems to me that neither the boiler (slave), or controller (master) have this as mandatory to be able to set max ch flow temp.

    Thatís a recipe for disaster (reality in this case).

    Leading me to observe either:

    1. OpenTherm specifications are flawed (this is my current opinion)

    Or

    2. Certification and governance of OpenTherm products is flawed leading to incompatible products on the market



    I did look at this when I was troubleshooting my Viessmann OpenTherm problem with max temps.

    See my response on this page to Bruce where I have referenced the OpenTherm spec where I believe I found that Viessmann were probably not at fault (if I was understanding the spec document correctly - which I seems to be as I had confirmation from OpenTherm association):


    http://www.automatedhome.co.uk/vbull...rshoots/page10


    Iíve reported these issues directly to the OpenTherm association and did not really get much out of them in the way of help or that they would liaise with Viessmann on the issue. They suggested I contact Viessmann who in turn told me to get their OpenTherm controller or go back to BDR91 on/off control.......

    I got this in response to my report of interoperability issues:

    ďDear Stephen,

    Iím chairman of the Technical Committee of the OpenTherm Association. I do agree with you statement that the maximum supply set point is an option for a master device (room control).
    The boiler should also work properly with a OpenTherm controller without the possibility to set the maximum supply temperature.
    I propose you contact Viessman to solve this issue in a for you acceptable way.

    Regards,
    Twan SmetsĒ


    Stephen.

  8. #218
    Automated Home Legend top brake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephenC View Post
    It seems to me that neither the boiler (slave), or controller (master) have this as mandatory to be able to set max ch flow temp.

    Thatís a recipe for disaster (reality in this case).

    Leading me to observe either:

    1. OpenTherm specifications are flawed (this is my current opinion)

    Or

    2. Certification and governance of OpenTherm products is flawed leading to incompatible products on the market



    I did look at this when I was troubleshooting my Viessmann OpenTherm problem with max temps.

    See my response on this page to Bruce where I have referenced the OpenTherm spec where I believe I found that Viessmann were probably not at fault (if I was understanding the spec document correctly - which I seems to be as I had confirmation from OpenTherm association):


    http://www.automatedhome.co.uk/vbull...rshoots/page10


    Iíve reported these issues directly to the OpenTherm association and did not really get much out of them in the way of help or that they would liaise with Viessmann on the issue. They suggested I contact Viessmann who in turn told me to get their OpenTherm controller or go back to BDR91 on/off control.......

    I got this in response to my report of interoperability issues:

    ďDear Stephen,

    Iím chairman of the Technical Committee of the OpenTherm Association. I do agree with you statement that the maximum supply set point is an option for a master device (room control).
    The boiler should also work properly with a OpenTherm controller without the possibility to set the maximum supply temperature.
    I propose you contact Viessman to solve this issue in a for you acceptable way.

    Regards,
    Twan SmetsĒ


    Stephen.
    Interesting thanks for sharing

    It is precisely to assure interoperability that the ch tmax is not mandatory

    Twan advised you in the correct way

    Customers need to lobby the boiler manufacturers to comply with the OT protocol spec and follow the spirit of OpenTherm standard rather than closing access or being protectionist by not selling OpenTherm compatible boilers in the UK market

    It tends to be the German boiler manufacturers that are resisting adoption of OpenTherm in the UK.
    I work for Resideo, posts are personal and my own views.

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by top brake View Post
    Interesting thanks for sharing

    It is precisely to assure interoperability that the ch tmax is not mandatory

    Twan advised you in the correct way

    Customers need to lobby the boiler manufacturers to comply with the OT protocol spec and follow the spirit of OpenTherm standard rather than closing access or being protectionist by not selling OpenTherm compatible boilers in the UK market

    It tends to be the German boiler manufacturers that are resisting adoption of OpenTherm in the UK.
    My boiler & controller are from different manufacturers in the Netherlands. The boiler allows the controller to set the CH maximum temperature and the controller has the ability to do it. It seems logical to me - the boiler's the slave and the controller is its master. So it's an odd thing in my view when a CH boiler master controller can't set a maximum CH water temperature limit.

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by blowlamp View Post
    My boiler & controller are from different manufacturers in the Netherlands. The boiler allows the controller to set the CH maximum temperature and the controller has the ability to do it. It seems logical to me - the boiler's the slave and the controller is its master. So it's an odd thing in my view when a CH boiler master controller can't set a maximum CH water temperature limit.
    As top brake has said, the spec does not require the master to set Tmax. As much as we stamp our feet, Honeywell have followed the spec laid down by the OpenTherm Association. Don't you have an Intergas boiler and can set Tmax at the boiler anyway?

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