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Thread: Help with Evohome / Opentherm / Intergas

  1. #121
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    The only installers I found who were 'keen' to take on my project were a couple of sole traders who were in their 20s/30s.

    The rest were along the lines of we will install a new boiler, but not touch the evohome.

  2. #122
    Automated Home Ninja Dan_Robinson's Avatar
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    As an installer I will say "long may that continue". I'm booked through to the end of October.

  3. #123
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    😂 Totally. I'm near Glasgow and it's a completely untapped market here - especially Evohome and OT. It's all nest, nest, nest (and WB).

    Personally I think Honeywell could do a much better job advertising as I hadn't even heard of evohome or anything like it until someone told me.

    Maybe some of the reason lots of installers told me there's no demand? Yet there is a demand for nest?

    Part of my negotiation position as a customer with installers was that I'd be happy for them to use my house as a demonstrator and for publicity etc. Again very few saw the opportunity.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by fergie View Post
    �� Totally. I'm near Glasgow and it's a completely untapped market here - especially Evohome and OT. It's all nest, nest, nest (and WB).
    And Nestv3 is now OT.

  5. #125
    Automated Home Legend paulockenden's Avatar
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    The trouble is, the major bit of an Evohome install is electrical. There's little if any plumbing required. But most heating engineers seem happy to do the gas/wet stuff, but farm out the electrical work to a tame sparky. That's what happened with my installer. But of course the sparky, who had most of the work to do, wasn't the one who'd done the (quite basic) Evohome training.

    There ARE a few people who do water, gas AND electrics, and I can't help thinking those are the people Honeywell should be targeting.

    P.

  6. #126
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    As I was running my evohome in standalone (rads only with no boiler connection) for while before installing the new boiler all the installer really had to do was the boiler install, fit the water kit to the cylinder and wire everything up including the OT bridge. Though he had never done one, he was electrically minded so was happy to look at the diagrams and do a bit of research himself. We paired and tested the OT bridge and water controller together.

    I guess it is quite a hefty outlay for Evohome for a decent size house (800-1000 depending on number of rads, plus labour) and then another 2k-3k on top of that if changing boiler. Maybe people don't want to pay 5k for a smart system, but surely those that can afford it are the ones to target?

    Nest is probably ideal for smaller homes, but ultimately I wanted the rad control (without contract) that evohome delivers.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulockenden View Post
    The trouble is, the major bit of an Evohome install is electrical. There's little if any plumbing required. But most heating engineers seem happy to do the gas/wet stuff, but farm out the electrical work to a tame sparky. That's what happened with my installer. But of course the sparky, who had most of the work to do, wasn't the one who'd done the (quite basic) Evohome training.

    There ARE a few people who do water, gas AND electrics, and I can't help thinking those are the people Honeywell should be targeting.

    P.
    And that is the problem in a nutshell. I know we've discussed this in another thread a while ago but lack of cross skilling is a major problem.

    The days of being able to specialise on something like being a gas safe registered plummer only are drawing to a close. Modern heating controls really need the installer to also be a qualified electrician and also have proper training in heating systems design from a "big picture" point of view. Even if you have the electrical side covered it's still not enough to be able to wire in a BDR91 if you don't understand the overall functioning of the system and why you're wiring up what you are.

    I sense that there is a real resistance to cross skilling in the heating industry where your traditional heating/plumbing guys just don't want to know about the electrical side of it and either farm that out to someone else or stick just to the basic "wire by numbers" that you see in typical wiring centre boxes, that doesn't really require any electrical understanding to implement, so long as you don't stray from the path...

    One of these wire by number types would have a heart attack if they were to try to figure out my custom wiring in my system - it's all perfectly logically laid out (and I even have a written circuit diagram in the cupboard) but it strays a long way from the "typical" wiring schemes that most wiring centres follow, let alone the fact that it has 3x BDR91's...

    It's a bit like the motor mechanic trade where the die hard guys who could overhaul an engine with their hands behind their back but just weren't interested in learning about ECU's and the rapidly more complex electrical systems in cars of today, and they either farm it out to specialist electrical troubleshooters (good example - scannerdanner on youtube!) or retire before it becomes too much of a hassle. I feel sorry for these guys as EV's start to take over!

    Most gas safe plumbers are content to stick with a single wall thermostat, wax pellet TRV's and an LCD timer. Or if you're lucky the single wall thermostat will be something like a Hive, which is a small improvement (TPI, better programming) but still isn't zoned.

    The guy that came and did some work for us to get the really run down system in this house at least functioning when we first moved in, (no TRV's at all, leaking valves etc) did a pretty decent job of the plumbing side for a decent price (although failed to notice that the pump was set at a 45 degree angle and put it back at 45 degrees after installing the ABV that I asked for!) however I could tell from a mile away that he wasn't a sparky and wasn't interested in new fangled, stuff.

    When I even mentioned that I was planning to install evohome later that year (that's why I'd asked for the ABV to be installed) he had heard of it but tried to talk me out of it, said it was a waste of time with an old low efficiency boiler and basically didn't think the system was worthwhile in the first place. When I probed a bit further it was clear he had no understanding of how evohome worked, or even the fact that it had independent schedules per zone.

    Nor did he seem to grasp the concept that better heating controls like a zoned system like evohome could save significant gas even on an old non-condensing boiler, in fact because the boiler is less efficient any percentage savings offered by zoning would be proportionately more in monetary terms! Obviously having a more efficient boiler and evohome would be even better again, but I made the call that as the first improvement to the system I'd rather have evohome with the old boiler and gain the control flexibility and comfort from it, than have an expensive new boiler but stick with an outdated single thermostat and manual TRV system.

    I find it highly disappointing that in 2017 a single wall thermostat with TPI (instead of Opentherm) and wax pellet TRV's is considered state of the art by the majority of installers when it clearly isn't. Thank goodness for the few like Richard that really know what they are doing and are enthusiastic about pushing newer more sophisticated technology, and know how to design the systems properly... and those of us DIY'ers who ignore the recommendations of the old set in their ways installers and do the same in our own time!
    Last edited by DBMandrake; 5th August 2017 at 03:25 PM.

  8. #128
    Automated Home Legend paulockenden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBMandrake View Post
    ...would have a heart attack if they were to try to figure out my custom wiring in my system
    How's that working out Simon?

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulockenden View Post
    How's that working out Simon?
    If you're referring to my heating zone valve wiring tweak, then yes it is working nicely.

  10. #130
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    I was indeed. Been thinking of doing the same - it looks like such a logical mod, with obvious benefits. But wanted to make sure you'd not seen any problems.

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