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Thread: Help with Evohome / Opentherm / Intergas

  1. #161
    Site Sponsor The EVOHOME Shop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenGus View Post
    I need to lie down.
    This is something we both agree on...

  2. #162
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    Thats Great so to upgrade an existing Evohome System which has a BDR Boiler relay and only HR92s no HW everything works now,
    DO I just replace the Boiler Demand Relay with an opentherm bridge and wire it into Terminals 11 & 12 on X4 of intergas boiler

    Thx Mylesm

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by The EVOHOME Shop View Post

    My personal feeling is that the information on how evohome is supposed to respond to OpenTherm had never been confirmed by Honeywell (no one had asked either), so those 'testing' it were really only guessing and assuming it works similar to TPI control (1.5 degrees proportional band, etc) - it doesn't.

    I will be honest, there are things I thought I knew about evohome that I didn't know at all and now I know these things it is now hard for me not to get evohome to modulate the boilers control setpoint. For instance, I know if I set the demand 1.5 degrees over actual temperature with OpenTherm, evohome will likely go to maximum. If i set a HR92 to 19.5 in a room showing 19, then it will set the control setpoint to maybe 50? It's quite logical how it works, but means we need to adjust our thinking as installers when fitting modulating controls verses ON/OFF or TPI control and re-learn things we have been teaching customers such as 'night setback' temps (maybe making these a little smaller).

    :
    I have been asking for Honeywell to provide information on normal Evohome/Opentherm operation for the past 6 months. Given that the very essence of Evohome is multi-zoning then it would seem that cranking the boiler up to max flow temperature,when any zone is outwith the 1.5C difference, runs counter to what Opentherm is designed to achieve.

    Exam question: Would better boiler efficiency be achieved with standard TRVs or single zone control (boiler operating under Opentherm control) than with Evohome/Opentherm multi-zoning.? Discuss

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by mylesm View Post
    Thats Great so to upgrade an existing Evohome System which has a BDR Boiler relay and only HR92s no HW everything works now,
    DO I just replace the Boiler Demand Relay with an opentherm bridge and wire it into Terminals 11 & 12 on X4 of intergas boiler

    Thx Mylesm
    Indeed, then follow the binding instructions in the evohome Installation Guide for binding the OpenTherm bridge...

  5. #165
    Automated Home Ninja Dan_Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenGus View Post
    I have been asking for Honeywell to provide information on normal Evohome/Opentherm operation for the past 6 months. Given that the very essence of Evohome is multi-zoning then it would seem that cranking the boiler up to max flow temperature,when any zone is outwith the 1.5C difference, runs counter to what Opentherm is designed to achieve.

    Exam question: Would better boiler efficiency be achieved with standard TRVs or single zone control (boiler operating under Opentherm control) than with Evohome/Opentherm multi-zoning.? Discuss
    I think a 1 degree control bandwidth is far too small. With modulating controls it need to be 2 maybe 3 degrees.

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenGus View Post
    I have been asking for Honeywell to provide information on normal Evohome/Opentherm operation for the past 6 months. Given that the very essence of Evohome is multi-zoning then it would seem that cranking the boiler up to max flow temperature,when any zone is outwith the 1.5C difference, runs counter to what Opentherm is designed to achieve.

    Exam question: Would better boiler efficiency be achieved with standard TRVs or single zone control (boiler operating under Opentherm control) than with Evohome/Opentherm multi-zoning.? Discuss
    See, now I haven't read anywhere that OpenTherm was 'designed' to do what people have suggested it 'should' (i.e. modulate the boilers burner to the most efficient point at all times). What I have read from the OpenTherm specification sheet is that the thermostat does not tell the boiler how to achieve the 'control setpoint' (that has been set by the thermostat), just like the boiler has no direct influence on what the thermostat(s) themselves do.

    When there is heating demand from one HR92 zone, the boiler will probably go to max designed flow temp set at the boiler (70 degrees C on my Intergas boiler for instance) and this room will heat up. The other rooms will also receive a higher flow temperature, but the HR92's should be putting the brakes on these radiators anyway (so the flow rate into them is minimal).

    Once in the control bandwidth, the boiler will modulate below the designed temp of the system and remain in the lower spectrum of condensing mode which is its most efficient point.

    For me the evohome multi zone system is still the clear winner - to revert backwards would be a mistake (as the control would be effectively removed from the individual zones).
    Last edited by The EVOHOME Shop; 11th August 2017 at 04:35 PM.

  7. #167
    Automated Home Legend paulockenden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The EVOHOME Shop View Post
    My personal feeling is that the information on how evohome is supposed to respond to OpenTherm had never been confirmed by Honeywell (no one had asked either), so those 'testing' it were really only guessing and assuming it works similar to TPI control (1.5 degrees proportional band, etc) - it doesn't.
    I asked. Here. And one of the Honeywell guys responded that it DOES work the same as BDR control, with a proportional band etc..

    Found it: http://www.automatedhome.co.uk/vbull...ll=1#post32858, and the following few comments.

    P.
    Last edited by paulockenden; 11th August 2017 at 05:18 PM.

  8. #168
    Automated Home Ninja Dan_Robinson's Avatar
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    It's a terminology thing.

  9. #169
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    Here is what I had said before http://www.automatedhome.co.uk/vbull...ll=1#post32870 still holds true and will be so with Intergas as well. I have been saying all along that I thought that the Intergas 'issue' was not an issue but the same behaviour as exhibited by all the other boilers. Problem was that NO one on this forum ever spelt out what the Intergas issue was except that @Hengus said that Intergas had confirmed there was a problem. So now there is None. World peace has been restored.

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruce_miranda View Post
    Here is what I had said before http://www.automatedhome.co.uk/vbull...ll=1#post32870 still holds true and will be so with Intergas as well. I have been saying all along that I thought that the Intergas 'issue' was not an issue but the same behaviour as exhibited by all the other boilers. Problem was that NO one on this forum ever spelt out what the Intergas issue was except that @Hengus said that Intergas had confirmed there was a problem. So now there is None. World peace has been restored.
    Intergas thought that there was an issue. Their reply dated December 2016:

    Many thanks for your email.

    There is no resolution date for the issue with the Eco PCB at present, we are still awaiting any news on that sorry.

    We have no release date for the Extreme boilers but I have been assured that they will be opentherm compatible. As soon as we have a release date for these boilers we will let everyone know.

    Regards

    xxxx xxxx
    Technical Support Engineer



    Intergas Heating Ltd
    Unit 94, Bay 1 Vantage Point
    The Pensnett Estate
    Kingswinford
    West Midlands
    DY6 7FS

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