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Thread: Evohome controller bug during Heating Off, but great job Dan and Domoticz

  1. #11
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    Again we reach a funny time in the year when the Heating is Off but invariably someone is feeling a little chilly so has turned the local override up and that has fired up the boiler. Had it not been for Domoticz and it's heat demand relays/indicators I would have had to look at 22 radiators to work out which one was calling for heat. Well done Dan and again Honeywell can we PLEASE have the Heat Demand icons on the controller.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruce_miranda View Post
    Again we reach a funny time in the year when the Heating is Off but invariably someone is feeling a little chilly so has turned the local override up and that has fired up the boiler. Had it not been for Domoticz and it's heat demand relays/indicators I would have had to look at 22 radiators to work out which one was calling for heat. Well done Dan and again Honeywell can we PLEASE have the Heat Demand icons on the controller.
    Also a better way of dealing with zones that have manually been turned up in heating off mode. The system needs to do one of the following:

    1) Lock radiator valves to prevent manual overrides being made at all when the heating is "OFF".
    2) Prevent any zones that are above the frost protect temperature from calling for heat when heating is "OFF". EG have the controller ignore all heat demands from HR92's and not pass them through to the boiler unless the zone(s) in question are down near or below 5 degrees. Another benefit of this method would be that setting the heating OFF would turn off the boiler relay immediately instead of after about 5 minutes when the HR92's "get around to it".
    3) Just accept that someone made a manual override on an HR92 and fired the boiler, by displaying clearly on the screen a set point and normal colour for that zone, so the user is aware of the situation instead of pretending the zone is off.

    Take your pick from the above. I'm torn between 2 and 3, although I think 2 is the most robust solution that would most reliably make "Off mean Off".
    Last edited by DBMandrake; 3rd October 2017 at 02:35 PM.

  3. #13
    Automated Home Ninja Dan_Robinson's Avatar
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    You can already do 1

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan_Robinson View Post
    You can already do 1
    No you can't.

    I'm talking about the controller automatically locking all the HR92's against manual override when the Heating Off quick action is activated and unlocking them again when it is cancelled. You're thinking about locking individual zones in the zone configuration which is a permanent change which always applies to the zone. (I probably wasn't clear enough in my description)
    Last edited by DBMandrake; 3rd October 2017 at 11:46 PM.

  5. #15
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    Something stranger happened today. My Heating is still set to off. But I noticed the boiler was on, so I guessed someone must have turned one of the radiator controllers on. So I went to Domoticz to check and sure enough the CH Valve Relay was showing on, along with the Boiler Relay. However none of the other Radiators where showing any Heat Demand. Great now how do I figure out who is calling for heat! Turns out that the radiator that had been turned up coincidentally also suffered a comms failure with the controller. But was able to turn the boiler on. So Domoticz was blind as to who was turning the boiler on too.

  6. #16
    Automated Home Legend paulockenden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruce_miranda View Post
    Turns out that the radiator that had been turned up coincidentally also suffered a comms failure with the controller. But was able to turn the boiler on.
    I don't see how that's possible. The HR92 talks to the controller, which in turn talks to the BDRs.

    Of course (with HGI80s or equivalent) it IS possible for the HR92 to send a message which the controller see but Domoticz misses.

    P.

  7. #17
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    I too am scratching my head about this one. All I can tell you is what I saw. On Domoticz there was 0 demand from any zone, yet the CH Valve Relay was showing 100%. So something was requesting heat but Domoticz couldn't see it and ofcourse with the controller being in Heating Off mode, it wasn't visible at all. I am going back today to study the graphs to see if I can explain this behaviour.

  8. #18
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    Capture.JPG

    OK here is what seems to have happened. The Snug is the room that caused the boiler to come on. It is the only room in the house that had a Heat Demand at the time. What is strange is that the reported Set Point seems to stay at the 5C (Controller Heating Off) but clearly it wasn't. You can see the room temperature rising in the time period that the boiler has been fired. The 5C set point is reported both by the controller back to the Honeywell servers as well as to the HGI80. It could just be a bug with the HR80 where a local over-ridden set point is not registered by the Controller when Off, but the Heat Demand message can fire the boiler, as though it's acting independently.

    What was even more coincidental was this Snug zone had a comms failure in the time period before and after this Heating period. But not during, as I previously incorrectly reported. I confirmed this via the Fault Log. @Dand we really need to work out how to pull the Controller fault log into Domoticz, so that we immediately be notified of a problem. I know this is possible, but will Honeywell tell us the command to use - probably not!
    Last edited by bruce_miranda; 8th October 2017 at 12:01 PM.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruce_miranda View Post
    Capture.JPG

    OK here is what seems to have happened. The Snug is the room that caused the boiler to come on. It is the only room in the house that had a Heat Demand at the time. What is strange is that the reported Set Point seems to stay at the 5C (Controller Heating Off) but clearly it wasn't. You can see the room temperature rising in the time period that the boiler has been fired. The 5C set point is reported both by the controller back to the Honeywell servers as well as to the HGI80. It could just be a bug with the HR80 where a local over-ridden set point is not registered by the Controller when Off, but the Heat Demand message can fire the boiler, as though it's acting independently.
    Set point and heat demand are completely independent.

    I think you'll also find that when the controller is in Heating Off mode and you manually turn up an HR92's set point that the controller despite showing an off symbol on the display reports that as 5 degrees back to the Honeywell servers regardless of what the real set point is on the HR92. (It ignores the set point but still accepts the heat demand)

    As for the HGI80 - that depends whether it is checking the set point from the controller or from the HR92 directly, (Dan would know the answer to that...) the HR92 would report the true set point but again I think you'll find in Heating Off mode the controller will only report 5 degrees for the set point regardless of what the HR92 is set to, hence your graph.
    What was even more coincidental was this Snug zone had a comms failure in the time period before and after this Heating period. But not during, as I previously incorrectly reported. I confirmed this via the Fault Log. @Dand we really need to work out how to pull the Controller fault log into Domoticz, so that we immediately be notified of a problem. I know this is possible, but will Honeywell tell us the command to use - probably not!
    In my testing (by pulling the batteries) if an HR92 goes unexpectedly offline while it is currently demanding heat, the controller maintains the same heat demand for that zone for approximately 30-60 minutes before assuming the HR92 went AWOL and setting the implied heat demand for that zone back to zero.

    As for your problem with that particular zone - I'd wager that the problem was a low battery or intermittent battery connection that resulted in the HR92 rebooting and/or going offline for a while, rather than an RF problem.

    If you reboot the HR92 it goes back to 20 degrees by default and will stay there until the next schedule change or update from the controller - which could be quite a while. During this time it may call for heat especially if it was night time and it was cold, but because you were in heating off mode you would not be aware it's set point was not really 5 degrees.

    It's too much of a coincidence to have both lost comms and an unexplained call for heat around the same time - it's got to be the HR92 losing power and/or rebooting and reverting to the default 20 degree set point for a while.

    I'd try re-tensioning the bottom battery contacts and maybe fit some new batteries - I had trouble with my bathroom HR92 once where even though the batteries were good it was sometimes spontaneously dying (screen going completely blank as well) when it tried to turn the motor, and it was just a poor battery contact.
    Last edited by DBMandrake; 8th October 2017 at 01:06 PM.

  10. #20
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    Let me check the batteries again. But the not reporting the HR80s set point is just plain dumb. It's like the controller saying, Don't talk to me, I ain't listening but check if the boiler will do what you are asking!

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