Evohome - Lost comms with pretty much everything?

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  • garmcqui
    Automated Home Guru
    • Jan 2015
    • 119

    #16
    Originally posted by paulockenden View Post
    Have you tried moving the controller to closer (maybe a couple of meters away) to the BDRs? Just to eliminate comms issues?
    The controller is only approx 12 feet from the wireless relays anyway, but yes had tried moving closer

    I suspect either the DHW relay or the evohome unit itself. Obviously, a replacement BDR91 would be the first option (especially as purchasing one with a single zone thermostat is almost the same price).

    I just can't believe it's given up the ghost already

    Comment

    • Dan_Robinson
      Automated Home Ninja
      • Jun 2012
      • 347

      #17
      How much you buying one for? I have a few in stock that can be yours for less than a single Zone kit.
      Kind Regards - Dan Robinson (Jennings Heating Ltd)

      Comment

      • HenGus
        Automated Home Legend
        • May 2014
        • 1001

        #18
        Originally posted by garmcqui View Post
        Hi,

        My parents have an Evohome system installed, 4 Zones, DHW and gateway.

        This morning they woke up to no heat, no hot water and solid red light on the wireless relay for DHW. The controller had lost comms with all 4 zones as well as the DHW sensor and a comms test to both the DHW relay and the heating demand relay failed.

        Seems very strange.

        I got dad to take the batteries out of the controller for a few minutes and reinsert them. On coming back up, it has synced with 2 of the 4 zones but still no comms with the DHW sensor or either BDR91.
        I have to ask, why is the focus on a faulty BDR (or BDRs) given that the OP’s parents have had issues with both HW and CH?

        Comment

        • Dan_Robinson
          Automated Home Ninja
          • Jun 2012
          • 347

          #19
          Experience.

          I've had more faulty BDR's than I've had base stations.
          Kind Regards - Dan Robinson (Jennings Heating Ltd)

          Comment

          • HenGus
            Automated Home Legend
            • May 2014
            • 1001

            #20
            Originally posted by Dan_Robinson View Post
            Experience.

            I've had more faulty BDR's than I've had base stations.
            Fair enough: but both BDRs?

            Comment

            • garmcqui
              Automated Home Guru
              • Jan 2015
              • 119

              #21
              Ok, bit of an update. I have factory reset the evohome again and this time completely ignored the DHW system, instead just binding the boiler relay and rooms. So far (touch wood) it is working ok, leading me to believe it is indeed a problem with the DHW relay.

              The weird thing is, I haven’t bound anything from the DHW side of things, but somehow evohome is still reporting DHW temperature? How! lol

              Comment

              • Dan_Robinson
                Automated Home Ninja
                • Jun 2012
                • 347

                #22
                Depending on how long you left it after the reset before tinkering again.... I'm not convinced that the factory reset always erases everything.... Especially on the v2's.
                Kind Regards - Dan Robinson (Jennings Heating Ltd)

                Comment

                • DBMandrake
                  Automated Home Legend
                  • Sep 2014
                  • 2361

                  #23
                  Originally posted by garmcqui View Post
                  Ok, bit of an update. I have factory reset the evohome again and this time completely ignored the DHW system, instead just binding the boiler relay and rooms. So far (touch wood) it is working ok, leading me to believe it is indeed a problem with the DHW relay.
                  A little clarification needed here - you have two BDR91's, not three, correct ? And the zone valves fire the boiler ?

                  If so, you are aware that you should not bind a Boiler relay in a two relay stored hot water configuration ? Now granted, if for testing purposes you are deliberately leaving out the hot water system it would be correct to bind a boiler control relay as you are simulating a system with no hot water control.

                  However when you bind the system correctly you bind the two relays within the stored hot water configuration section, and you must not attempt to bind a boiler control relay unless you do actually have a third BDR91 as a boiler control relay - as I do. You should leave it set to None. If you attempt to bind the boiler control relay when you only have two relays you will have a double binding issue with one of the BDR91's and the system will not work properly. You will also probably see comms errors reported.
                  The weird thing is, I haven’t bound anything from the DHW side of things, but somehow evohome is still reporting DHW temperature? How! lol
                  As Dan says it sounds like the factory reset isn't actually clearing everything. I've had that problem myself before.

                  I think the generally recommended approach is to use the factory reset, go back to the home screen and wait a couple of minutes, (for the configuration to be written to non volatile memory) then remove the batteries while it is off the dock to trigger a reboot. It seems like even though configuration files get written correctly to non volatile storage, (flash) sometimes some of the configuration stays in ram until rebooted and can interfere with setting the system up again if you don't reboot in between the factory reset and reconfiguration.
                  Last edited by DBMandrake; 22 September 2017, 09:35 AM.

                  Comment

                  • HenGus
                    Automated Home Legend
                    • May 2014
                    • 1001

                    #24
                    Does any of the above help to explain what might have occurred in the the original post? I don't see how a failed BDR on the HW side of things would impact on the CH - or have I misunderstood what was reported?

                    Quote: The controller had lost comms with all 4 zones as well as the DHW sensor and a comms test to both the DHW relay and the heating demand relay failed. Unquote

                    Comment

                    • Rameses
                      Industry Expert
                      • Nov 2014
                      • 446

                      #25
                      Originally posted by Dan_Robinson View Post
                      Depending on how long you left it after the reset before tinkering again.... I'm not convinced that the factory reset always erases everything.... Especially on the v2's.
                      The factory reset does reset everything on the evo - however there will be 'calls' from the legacy devices looking for the previous evo - unless you reset those components (HR92, BDR91 etc) - evohome will try to make sense - chuck and error - but it wont stop you binding. However as the BDR91 for example can be dual bound - you will get 'calls' which will appear as errors.

                      Best practice is if you need to hard reset the evo then ensure other components are equally wiped.
                      getconnected.honeywell.com | I work for Honeywell. Any posts I make are purely to help if I can. Any personal views expressed are my own

                      Comment

                      • Rameses
                        Industry Expert
                        • Nov 2014
                        • 446

                        #26
                        Originally posted by DBMandrake View Post
                        A little clarification needed here - you have two BDR91's, not three, correct ? And the zone valves fire the boiler ?

                        If so, you are aware that you should not bind a Boiler relay in a two relay stored hot water configuration ? Now granted, if for testing purposes you are deliberately leaving out the hot water system it would be correct to bind a boiler control relay as you are simulating a system with no hot water control.

                        However when you bind the system correctly you bind the two relays within the stored hot water configuration section, and you must not attempt to bind a boiler control relay unless you do actually have a third BDR91 as a boiler control relay - as I do. You should leave it set to None. If you attempt to bind the boiler control relay when you only have two relays you will have a double binding issue with one of the BDR91's and the system will not work properly. You will also probably see comms errors reported.

                        As Dan says it sounds like the factory reset isn't actually clearing everything. I've had that problem myself before.

                        I think the generally recommended approach is to use the factory reset, go back to the home screen and wait a couple of minutes, (for the configuration to be written to non volatile memory) then remove the batteries while it is off the dock to trigger a reboot. It seems like even though configuration files get written correctly to non volatile storage, (flash) sometimes some of the configuration stays in ram until rebooted and can interfere with setting the system up again if you don't reboot in between the factory reset and reconfiguration.
                        As per DBMandrake says - this is a common issue - people bind a boiler relay - when they don't have one. They just need to bind the valves - who in-turn will fire the boiler (usually via a hard wire connection to boiler)
                        getconnected.honeywell.com | I work for Honeywell. Any posts I make are purely to help if I can. Any personal views expressed are my own

                        Comment

                        • garmcqui
                          Automated Home Guru
                          • Jan 2015
                          • 119

                          #27
                          Ok, apologies for leaving it so long to post.

                          I am pleased to say a replacement BDR91 DHW relay seems to have solved the problem. All zones are now working properly, and the DHW responds to demands as it should.

                          Now, as for the configuration.... My parents' system is a slightly unconventional configuration in that the unvented DHW cylinder was added quite some time after the CH was installed (before this they only had DHW heated by immersion). Their oil-fired boiler is in a garage some 60ft from the house, and so (to avoid having to dig up and re-lay the driveway) the DHW cylinder was simply plumbed into the CH circuit. Think of it as just another radiator, isolated by a 2-port zone valve.

                          The way I configured it initially was as an S-plan system, where a CH relay and a DHW relay were bound to the evohome and controlled a CH and DHW zone valve, with boiler then being activated by the zone valve end points. However it quickly became apparent that this wasn't going to work, as if there was DHW demand and no CH demand, the CH zone valve remained closed and so the boiler simply pumped water around the bypass.

                          So, the way it is currently configured is with a DHW relay and a boiler demand relay. The 'CH Zone Valve' is simply locked open. If CH is called for, the boiler relay activates the boiler/pump and all is well. If DHW is called for, the DHW relay opens the DHW zone valve and the boiler relay activates the boiler/pump. If no radiators are calling for heat, just the DHW is heated. It has been working perfectly this way for almost a year now.

                          This was the main reason I put the Evohome system in for them, as prior to this they could have Central Heating without DHW, but there was no way for them to have DHW on without Central Heating (unless they manually went round and turned the TRVs off), which was just daft.

                          I hope that makes sense.

                          G
                          Last edited by garmcqui; 26 September 2017, 11:58 AM.

                          Comment

                          • MichaelD
                            Automated Home Guru
                            • Mar 2006
                            • 167

                            #28
                            Originally posted by garmcqui View Post
                            .... Their oil-fired boiler is in a garage some 60ft from the house ....

                            G
                            Wow, they must lose a huge amount of heat travelling 60 ft to the house then another 60ft or the return. But, I guess they appreciate a heated drive on those icy mornings

                            Comment

                            • garmcqui
                              Automated Home Guru
                              • Jan 2015
                              • 119

                              #29
                              it's ridiculous but it has to be that way apparently (what's even more ridiculous is that the boiler isn't even a condensing one!). I remember the pipework being put in when I was a teenager. I believe they are pre-insulated 32mm supply/return pipes, but the diameter of the insulation was well over 200mm.

                              Comment

                              • DBMandrake
                                Automated Home Legend
                                • Sep 2014
                                • 2361

                                #30
                                Originally posted by garmcqui View Post
                                Ok, apologies for leaving it so long to post.

                                I am pleased to say a replacement BDR91 DHW relay seems to have solved the problem. All zones are now working properly, and the DHW responds to demands as it should.
                                Interesting - a completely dead DHW BDR91 should not interfere with the functioning of the rest of the system, only the hot water should have failed....

                                However it is possible at least in theory for it to develop a fault where it starts spamming the radio channel with RF interference or junk transmissions - which would then interfere with all comms between all Evohome devices since they all work on the same shared access channel.

                                Comment

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