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Thread: Vaillant EcoTec 838 and hourglass

  1. #31
    Automated Home Ninja Dan_Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruce_miranda View Post
    I still don't understand why the boiler or the installation doesn't have a flow gauge, that too is such an important factor in efficiency. Some modern pumps have them though.
    Have you seen the price of them?
    Kind Regards - Dan Robinson (Jennings Heating Ltd)

  2. #32
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    When I had a new combi boiler fitted in the autumn of 2012, the Ecotec plus 831, the installer left the boiler with its default settings. As a result I had problems with the heating as the boiler would continually "sleep" and enter anti cycling mode. This was due to the boiler setting "D.0 Heating partial load" being left at Auto and not adjusted for my property particulars (1930s 3 bed semi, 8 radiators). From reading many posts (on http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk and www.diynot.com), I changed the value of D.0 to 16kW which seem to "fix" my problem. I don't think my installer really understood boiler settings other than the boiler flow temperature (70C) or hot water temperature (50C).

    For the boiler's first annual service, I used a Vaillant Engineer. I asked him about the D.0 setting being left on AUTO. He said that the AUTO doesn't really work and gave me a rough guide of between 12-15kW for my property. I now run the boiler at 11kW ("D.001 Overrun time":7 mins, "D.002 Max. burner anti-cycling time":30 mins, and a flow temperature of 68C).

    I'm not sure if newer Vaillant boilers are any better with D.0 being set to AUTO.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan_Robinson View Post
    Broadly speaking yes, but that 55 degrees is not a fixed value. One also needs to consider how much of the HEX is below 55. I size my systems to run at 60 degree flow. If ufh only then 50. More or less 100%of the HEX surface area is condensing... Not just the first 1 or 2 coils of the HEX.
    I pull values from eBus every 30 seconds and store them in a database for graphing. In the absence of any eBus variable which tells me anything useful, this is the best approximation I can do.

    Out of interest, with a flow of 60, how hot do you keep your hot water? I'm currently running a flow of 75 and my DHW is set to 60. As you mentioned earlier, I can see the dT (from flow to stored water) decreasing and the boiler modulating down as the cylinder heats up. If I had my flow any lower, I think it would take forever to heat the cylinder. (I also have a poorly performing, and poorly insulated cylinder which loses 15C+ overnight with no use - it's next on my list after the basement!)

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karrimor View Post
    When I had a new combi boiler fitted in the autumn of 2012, the Ecotec plus 831, the installer left the boiler with its default settings. As a result I had problems with the heating as the boiler would continually "sleep" and enter anti cycling mode. This was due to the boiler setting "D.0 Heating partial load" being left at Auto and not adjusted for my property particulars (1930s 3 bed semi, 8 radiators). From reading many posts (on http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk and www.diynot.com), I changed the value of D.0 to 16kW which seem to "fix" my problem. I don't think my installer really understood boiler settings other than the boiler flow temperature (70C) or hot water temperature (50C).

    For the boiler's first annual service, I used a Vaillant Engineer. I asked him about the D.0 setting being left on AUTO. He said that the AUTO doesn't really work and gave me a rough guide of between 12-15kW for my property. I now run the boiler at 11kW ("D.001 Overrun time":7 mins, "D.002 Max. burner anti-cycling time":30 mins, and a flow temperature of 68C).

    I'm not sure if newer Vaillant boilers are any better with D.0 being set to AUTO.
    If it was trying to pump so much heat into the heating then i'm not surprised. As stated, we usually leave this setting on Auto however the system and heat only boilers we've fitted have either been correctly sized, or smaller combis (Such as 24kw) so this issue wouldn't occur the same.
    Last edited by mtmcgavock; 31st October 2017 at 09:32 PM. Reason: Thought it said 838!

  5. #35
    Automated Home Ninja Dan_Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dty View Post
    I pull values from eBus every 30 seconds and store them in a database for graphing. In the absence of any eBus variable which tells me anything useful, this is the best approximation I can do.

    Out of interest, with a flow of 60, how hot do you keep your hot water? I'm currently running a flow of 75 and my DHW is set to 60. As you mentioned earlier, I can see the dT (from flow to stored water) decreasing and the boiler modulating down as the cylinder heats up. If I had my flow any lower, I think it would take forever to heat the cylinder. (I also have a poorly performing, and poorly insulated cylinder which loses 15C+ overnight with no use - it's next on my list after the basement!)
    The boilers I install know the difference between heating and hot water, they don't share the load so the heating is off during cylinder recharge cycles. Apart from the example above where one boiler remains on heating unless the hot water is in "ludicrous mode".

    In hot water mode they run up to 80 degrees to get the cylinder over and done with asap. I could take them to 90, but that would put them under too much stress over the expected lifespan of the appliance.
    Kind Regards - Dan Robinson (Jennings Heating Ltd)

  6. #36
    Automated Home Ninja Dan_Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtmcgavock View Post
    If it was trying to pump so much heat into the heating then i'm not surprised. As stated, we usually leave this setting on Auto however the system and heat only boilers we've fitted have either been correctly sized, or smaller combis (Such as 24kw) so this issue wouldn't occur the same.
    It's interesting hearing the differences between the installations is it not?
    Kind Regards - Dan Robinson (Jennings Heating Ltd)

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    What's the point you are trying to make here? That Auto isn't always correct. Then yes, i'd agree. However should the correct product been installed in the first place then there shouldn't been any issue leaving it in Auto mode, as the max output would be correct in the first place.

  8. #38
    Automated Home Ninja Dan_Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtmcgavock View Post
    What's the point you are trying to make here? That Auto isn't always correct. Then yes, i'd agree. However should the correct product been installed in the first place then there shouldn't been any issue leaving it in Auto mode, as the max output would be correct in the first place.
    Calm down... I'm not making any point, other than it is interesting that we have several examples of good and bad from the non professional posters. If anything I am agreeing with you. Which considering I don't actually like Vaillant, is something in itself.
    Kind Regards - Dan Robinson (Jennings Heating Ltd)

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan_Robinson View Post
    Calm down... I'm not making any point, other than it is interesting that we have several examples of good and bad from the non professional posters. If anything I am agreeing with you. Which considering I don't actually like Vaillant, is something in itself.
    I wasn't actually taking it as an insult, it was that I didn't understand what you were trying to say

    In regards to Vaillant, they're the better of the bunch IMO. I can't comment on Intergas (Which I noticed you seem to like) as i've never installed them or to be honest maintained them as they are few and far between in our area. To be fair they all have their positives and negatives (Some which you only find out down the line), if only someone could manufacture the perfect boiler

  10. #40
    Automated Home Ninja Dan_Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtmcgavock View Post
    I wasn't actually taking it as an insult, it was that I didn't understand what you were trying to say

    In regards to Vaillant, they're the better of the bunch IMO. I can't comment on Intergas (Which I noticed you seem to like) as i've never installed them or to be honest maintained them as they are few and far between in our area. To be fair they all have their positives and negatives (Some which you only find out down the line), if only someone could manufacture the perfect boiler

    Indeed. I love installing Intergas, but their turn-down is poor. Vaillant are the only "big brand" I will entertain installing, and then only the 6 series. I refuse on general principle to install Worcester.

    If you're happy with Bunnies, then cool.. I heard today that they're doing some big developments in their in-house controls including multi zone and remote management. If that's the case then the market could be in for a big shake up. Which it sorely needs.

    Its a shame their build quality has suffered in recent years as I would install the bigger units as an alternative to multiple Intergas if the space prevented. But, I still have issues with them and the barefaced lies they spun over the Homeswerve/customer data debacle (I was at the pow-wow they had at Belper where they tried to placate installer etc by giving excuses for the data breaches. It was an entertaining morning
    Kind Regards - Dan Robinson (Jennings Heating Ltd)

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