Originally posted by bruce_miranda
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Vaillant EcoTec 838 and hourglass
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When I had a new combi boiler fitted in the autumn of 2012, the Ecotec plus 831, the installer left the boiler with its default settings. As a result I had problems with the heating as the boiler would continually "sleep" and enter anti cycling mode. This was due to the boiler setting "D.0 Heating partial load" being left at Auto and not adjusted for my property particulars (1930s 3 bed semi, 8 radiators). From reading many posts (on http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk and www.diynot.com), I changed the value of D.0 to 16kW which seem to "fix" my problem. I don't think my installer really understood boiler settings other than the boiler flow temperature (70C) or hot water temperature (50C).
For the boiler's first annual service, I used a Vaillant Engineer. I asked him about the D.0 setting being left on AUTO. He said that the AUTO doesn't really work and gave me a rough guide of between 12-15kW for my property. I now run the boiler at 11kW ("D.001 Overrun time":7 mins, "D.002 Max. burner anti-cycling time":30 mins, and a flow temperature of 68C).
I'm not sure if newer Vaillant boilers are any better with D.0 being set to AUTO.
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Originally posted by Dan_Robinson View PostBroadly speaking yes, but that 55 degrees is not a fixed value. One also needs to consider how much of the HEX is below 55. I size my systems to run at 60 degree flow. If ufh only then 50. More or less 100%of the HEX surface area is condensing... Not just the first 1 or 2 coils of the HEX.
Out of interest, with a flow of 60, how hot do you keep your hot water? I'm currently running a flow of 75 and my DHW is set to 60. As you mentioned earlier, I can see the dT (from flow to stored water) decreasing and the boiler modulating down as the cylinder heats up. If I had my flow any lower, I think it would take forever to heat the cylinder. (I also have a poorly performing, and poorly insulated cylinder which loses 15C+ overnight with no use - it's next on my list after the basement!)
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Originally posted by Karrimor View PostWhen I had a new combi boiler fitted in the autumn of 2012, the Ecotec plus 831, the installer left the boiler with its default settings. As a result I had problems with the heating as the boiler would continually "sleep" and enter anti cycling mode. This was due to the boiler setting "D.0 Heating partial load" being left at Auto and not adjusted for my property particulars (1930s 3 bed semi, 8 radiators). From reading many posts (on http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk and www.diynot.com), I changed the value of D.0 to 16kW which seem to "fix" my problem. I don't think my installer really understood boiler settings other than the boiler flow temperature (70C) or hot water temperature (50C).
For the boiler's first annual service, I used a Vaillant Engineer. I asked him about the D.0 setting being left on AUTO. He said that the AUTO doesn't really work and gave me a rough guide of between 12-15kW for my property. I now run the boiler at 11kW ("D.001 Overrun time":7 mins, "D.002 Max. burner anti-cycling time":30 mins, and a flow temperature of 68C).
I'm not sure if newer Vaillant boilers are any better with D.0 being set to AUTO.
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Originally posted by dty View PostI pull values from eBus every 30 seconds and store them in a database for graphing. In the absence of any eBus variable which tells me anything useful, this is the best approximation I can do.
Out of interest, with a flow of 60, how hot do you keep your hot water? I'm currently running a flow of 75 and my DHW is set to 60. As you mentioned earlier, I can see the dT (from flow to stored water) decreasing and the boiler modulating down as the cylinder heats up. If I had my flow any lower, I think it would take forever to heat the cylinder. (I also have a poorly performing, and poorly insulated cylinder which loses 15C+ overnight with no use - it's next on my list after the basement!)
In hot water mode they run up to 80 degrees to get the cylinder over and done with asap. I could take them to 90, but that would put them under too much stress over the expected lifespan of the appliance.Kind Regards - Dan Robinson (Jennings Heating Ltd)
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Originally posted by mtmcgavock View PostIf it was trying to pump so much heat into the heating then i'm not surprised. As stated, we usually leave this setting on Auto however the system and heat only boilers we've fitted have either been correctly sized, or smaller combis (Such as 24kw) so this issue wouldn't occur the same.Kind Regards - Dan Robinson (Jennings Heating Ltd)
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Originally posted by mtmcgavock View PostWhat's the point you are trying to make here? That Auto isn't always correct. Then yes, i'd agree. However should the correct product been installed in the first place then there shouldn't been any issue leaving it in Auto mode, as the max output would be correct in the first place.Kind Regards - Dan Robinson (Jennings Heating Ltd)
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Originally posted by Dan_Robinson View PostCalm down... I'm not making any point, other than it is interesting that we have several examples of good and bad from the non professional posters. If anything I am agreeing with you. Which considering I don't actually like Vaillant, is something in itself.
In regards to Vaillant, they're the better of the bunch IMO. I can't comment on Intergas (Which I noticed you seem to like) as i've never installed them or to be honest maintained them as they are few and far between in our area. To be fair they all have their positives and negatives (Some which you only find out down the line), if only someone could manufacture the perfect boiler
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Originally posted by mtmcgavock View PostI wasn't actually taking it as an insult, it was that I didn't understand what you were trying to say
In regards to Vaillant, they're the better of the bunch IMO. I can't comment on Intergas (Which I noticed you seem to like) as i've never installed them or to be honest maintained them as they are few and far between in our area. To be fair they all have their positives and negatives (Some which you only find out down the line), if only someone could manufacture the perfect boiler
Indeed. I love installing Intergas, but their turn-down is poor. Vaillant are the only "big brand" I will entertain installing, and then only the 6 series. I refuse on general principle to install Worcester.
If you're happy with Bunnies, then cool.. I heard today that they're doing some big developments in their in-house controls including multi zone and remote management. If that's the case then the market could be in for a big shake up. Which it sorely needs.
Its a shame their build quality has suffered in recent years as I would install the bigger units as an alternative to multiple Intergas if the space prevented. But, I still have issues with them and the barefaced lies they spun over the Homeswerve/customer data debacle (I was at the pow-wow they had at Belper where they tried to placate installer etc by giving excuses for the data breaches. It was an entertaining morningKind Regards - Dan Robinson (Jennings Heating Ltd)
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Originally posted by Dan_Robinson View PostIndeed. I love installing Intergas, but their turn-down is poor. Vaillant are the only "big brand" I will entertain installing, and then only the 6 series. I refuse on general principle to install Worcester.
If you're happy with Bunnies, then cool.. I heard today that they're doing some big developments in their in-house controls including multi zone and remote management. If that's the case then the market could be in for a big shake up. Which it sorely needs.
Its a shame their build quality has suffered in recent years as I would install the bigger units as an alternative to multiple Intergas if the space prevented. But, I still have issues with them and the barefaced lies they spun over the Homeswerve/customer data debacle (I was at the pow-wow they had at Belper where they tried to placate installer etc by giving excuses for the data breaches. It was an entertaining morning
I think some of the newer Vaillants build quality is OK. I thought they had improved of recent over some of the parts that were in some of the early condensing models (Such as the rubber hoses etc.) But none will ever be as reliable as the turboMaxes. I've been quite impressed with their after service though, had a leaking diverter on one we installed. Rang at 11am, they were out by 1pm. Can't say fairer than that...
I've never been keen on Vaillant controls, so it will be interesting to see what they come up with. They usually like to overcomplicate things.
Funnily enough we've never installed one of the Vaillant light commerical boilers and have a job to do using one. We usually would put more than one boiler in but space is an issue and it'll have to have one boiler unfortunately.
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Those hoses are better filters than the bloody filters are .
I've seen the Compact and thought it was done by the work experience lad. LOL.
I have a soft spot for the original Turbomax. Had to repair my brother's diverter on Easter bank holiday when my then, 90 year old grandmother and 70 years old mother (used to medeteranian climates) were staying. We were on the business end of a few bottles of Leffe each and decided, as my spares packs had already been liberated of the diaphragms, to borrow the inner tube from my nephew's bike.
Lasted 3 weeks IIRC.
.Kind Regards - Dan Robinson (Jennings Heating Ltd)
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Did a couple of the 656's a while ago. Seem to remember being caught out by the connections underneath, but it was otherwise an easy job. Normally we'd have used an Atag Q series, but the Bunnies slotted into the same footprint. Now Atag have had their restructuring we've moved solely to Intergas.
Not everyone's cup of tea, but very flexible and embarrassing to service. Eco rf is our go to boiler for combis and system. Those pics above are 36 rf's driving the diverter valves directly off the board using cylinder sensors. OpenTherm or weather comp for heating, so we're using the remote management system to feed weather data to the boilers to run the mixture of ufh and rads. Total house heatloss is around 60kw (boilers are rated lower for heating). 300sqm of ufh and 240 of rads iirc.Kind Regards - Dan Robinson (Jennings Heating Ltd)
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There is another problem with these big boilers and Evohome. It's to do with the delay in firing up the boiler and opening the TRVs. Often the boiler is fired but it takes a while for all the TRVs to be opened up. To counter this you need to keep the bypass open at a value lower than you would have normally liked. If you don't you land up with the boiler going into limp mode and waiting. But that they causes the boiler to modulate lower, so you never get the full strength of the boiler.
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