New evohome FW - update WiFi 02.00.17.00 and Application 02.00.17.03

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  • radar2016
    Automated Home Jr Member
    • Mar 2016
    • 43

    I am puzzled as to how there can be a percentage showing for (BDR91 ) wireless relay box, would it not be the case that this is either on or off (100% or 0%).
    It is currently off (no green LED)but showing 56%

    Comment

    • dty
      Automated Home Ninja
      • Aug 2016
      • 489

      Originally posted by radar2016 View Post
      I am puzzled as to how there can be a percentage showing for (BDR91 ) wireless relay box, would it not be the case that this is either on or off (100% or 0%).
      It is currently off (no green LED)but showing 56%
      No. The controller sends the heat demand (together with the boiler cycling parameters) to the BDR91 and it is responsible for doing the TPI modulation itself.

      Comment

      • mylesm
        Automated Home Guru
        • Nov 2015
        • 153

        Originally posted by mylesm View Post
        Thanks Rameses

        Heres my App Screen [ATTACH=CONFIG]1153[/ATTACH]

        And my Evo Screen [ATTACH=CONFIG]1154[/ATTACH]

        As you can see its on App but not on Evo any hints

        Thanks
        Mylesm
        Any update Why outside weather is showing on app but not on Evohome Screen

        Happy New Year
        Mylesm

        Comment

        • Dan_Robinson
          Automated Home Ninja
          • Jun 2012
          • 347

          Originally posted by radar2016 View Post
          I am puzzled as to how there can be a percentage showing for (BDR91 ) wireless relay box, would it not be the case that this is either on or off (100% or 0%).
          It is currently off (no green LED)but showing 56%
          BDR's are surprisingly clever.
          Kind Regards - Dan Robinson (Jennings Heating Ltd)

          Comment

          • bruce_miranda
            Automated Home Legend
            • Jul 2014
            • 2307

            Has the app API been updated with the Heat Demand %?

            Comment

            • HenGus
              Automated Home Legend
              • May 2014
              • 1001

              Two weeks on, the updated firmware seems to be working well. The difference between the OATs on the App and the controller is slightly irritating, and I am not sure what value added there is in having this information on the controller (or the App for that matter). As hard as I try, I cannot see any correlation between the total percentage on the boiler and the sum of the individual zones. On the odd occasion, the zone percentages equal the boiler percentage; more often than not, they do not. As I post, I have also got one zone where the set and target temperatures are the same; the radiators have been stone cold for over an hour, and the zone is showing an 8% heating demand. This is often the case, and it is not just one single zone. Perhaps Honeywell could provide some clarity on what the percentages actually mean in layman's terms.

              Comment

              • DBMandrake
                Automated Home Legend
                • Sep 2014
                • 2361

                Originally posted by HenGus View Post
                Two weeks on, the updated firmware seems to be working well. The difference between the OATs on the App and the controller is slightly irritating, and I am not sure what value added there is in having this information on the controller (or the App for that matter).
                I like having the outside temperature reading but it does annoy me that it disagrees with the temperature reading in the app - I see the post from Andy earlier in the thread confirming that they use two different weather services, which whilst explaining the discrepancy doesn't really excuse it. After comparing over time the reading on the control panel, the iPhone app, weather pro (metogroup) and my own outdoor temperature sensor it seems that the service used by the controller is less accurate than the one used by the Honeywell iPhone app - sometimes by a few degrees.
                As hard as I try, I cannot see any correlation between the total percentage on the boiler and the sum of the individual zones. On the odd occasion, the zone percentages equal the boiler percentage; more often than not, they do not.
                I discussed this over in the following post:



                The correlation seems pretty simple to me - the the total percentage heat demand is simply the maximum heat demand of any individual zones including hot water. Simple as that. Don't forget to check page 2 (and 3 if you have one) as not all the zones fit on the first page.

                As I post, I have also got one zone where the set and target temperatures are the same; the radiators have been stone cold for over an hour, and the zone is showing an 8% heating demand. This is often the case, and it is not just one single zone. Perhaps Honeywell could provide some clarity on what the percentages actually mean in layman's terms.
                Again, discussed in the above linked post.

                The heat demand is derived from the HR92 valve pin position percentage as shown in the graph in the linked post. The valve position has to be about 30% or more before any heat demand is generated.

                That heat demand of the zone with the highest heat demand then controls the duty cycle % of the BDR91, or the flow temperature for Opentherm. (Nobody has measured the relationship between heat demand and OpenTherm flow temperature yet - now that heat demand is visible are there any takers ?)

                Funnily enough I have the same problem as you in several zones, but even more severe, with zones showing heat demands as high as 25% while the radiator is stone cold, and although I was sort of aware that this was going on in a couple of zones the heat demand display has really brought to my attention just how bad it is and how many zones are doing it.

                I know exactly what is causing it in my case as well - sticky valve bodies which have been getting progressively worse over time as (presumably) the rubber seals in the valve go hard/sticky or the pin corrodes.

                A good example is the bathroom - I have kept an eye on the heat demand screen quite a bit since the update (I've actually just left it on that screen a lot of the time) and I noticed the bathroom was showing a 25% heat demand even though the radiator was stone cold. I checked the valve position (option 10) on the HR92 and sure enough it said about 65% (which correlates with a 25% heat demand if you refer to my graph) and yet no water was flowing through the radiator, and I know the boiler was running at the time for other zones.

                This is definitely a fault or incompatibility with the valve body as it should start flowing at about 30% indicated pin position not over 65%! I know its not an incompatibility per-se in this instance because these valve bodies (Peggler bulldog) all worked perfectly with the HR92's when new two years ago but over time one by one they have started to get sticky and have forced me to enable stroke 1 mode on some of them otherwise they won't open fully.

                If the valve won't start flowing until the pin position is a long way past 30% then you will indeed see heat demand with no water flowing through the valve... As a workaround until I can get rid of these valves and install some Valencia's I have found enabling stroke 1 re-calibrates the valve in such a way that this problem doesn't seem to happen. Unfortunately this does tend to cause more overshoots and supposedly reduces battery life, but without this setting on some of my radiators they will generate heat demand without allowing any water through the radiator...and also fail to heat up fully during high demand.

                Another thing that sticky valve bodies can cause is constant overshoots/oscillation in temperature and inability to keep a steady temperature. Over time the oscillations have got worse in many of my rooms, and again I put it down to sticky valve bodies. This is because ideally the valve body should start flowing at about 30% as it is opened and also stop flowing at about 30% as it is closed with little if any hysteresis.

                When they are sticky what you'll find is that it won't start flowing until the pin position reaches a much higher percentage - over 65% in the bathroom, but then won't close again until the percentage is way lower - I'm seeing some valves that won't stop flowing until under an indicated 20%. In those cases the room is over temperature by nearly a degree, the valve position is down to 20% or less (and 0% heat demand indicated) but the valve is still flowing water - which means if other zones are calling for heat the room will keep heating and go well past the set point before it finally shuts it right down.

                The stickiness adds loads of hysteresis to the control of the water flow through the radiator, and overshoots and oscillations are inevitable in that situation as the system simply can't control the flow of water through the radiator properly.

                In your case if you have a persistent problem with a zone calling for heat when it is not flowing you might want to try setting stroke to 1 - just change the setting to 1, remove the HR92, wind out the black wheel then refit it to force a full re-calibration and see if it helps.

                If not, you might be seeing problems with the valve bodies becoming sticky, although an 8% heat demand is nowhere near as bad as what I'm seeing.
                Last edited by DBMandrake; 2 January 2018, 02:07 PM.

                Comment

                • HenGus
                  Automated Home Legend
                  • May 2014
                  • 1001

                  All my TRV bodies were replaced with new Valencia bodies 9 months ago. This is what my readings are at the moment:


                  Boiler Control Opentherm 42%

                  Hall/Landing 42% (the 3 radiators are slightly undersized so this zone is always showing a heat requirement when it is close to the set temp)

                  Study 14% (the rad is barely warm)

                  Dining Room 2% (cold radiator)

                  Bed 4 4% (cold radiator)

                  Bed 5 12% (over an integral garage - warm radiator)

                  Toilet 1% (cold radiator)

                  I do not see how any of the above equates to a boiler control/opentherm demand of 42%: that said, I accept that your finding does confirm what I am seeing on the controller. What it doesn't explain is what is happening with the boiler which, in truth, is very little. The boiler pump is running for long periods with a calculated flow temperature of 20C. It will then burn for a few minutes until the flow temperature reaches a calculated flow temperature of 50C. During this time, the boiler demand % stays at 42%. It's been like that now for over 30 minutes. All zones are at (or above by 0.5C) their set temperatures.

                  Edit: popped out for 20 mins:

                  Boiler Control 42%

                  Kitchen 14%

                  Hall/Study 42%

                  Dining Room 12%

                  Bed 4 4%

                  Bed 5 2%
                  Last edited by HenGus; 2 January 2018, 03:06 PM.

                  Comment

                  • rvb99
                    Automated Home Sr Member
                    • Oct 2017
                    • 74

                    In the above scenario surely the boiler demand is just the demand of the zone requiring the biggest demand. I’m not sure why there is a need or why we would expect to sum each zone demand. For me what is more interesting is the algorithm used by the bdr91 to fire the boiler based on the different demand inputs.

                    Comment

                    • paulockenden
                      Automated Home Legend
                      • Apr 2015
                      • 1719

                      I agree with Simon that it's the max of the zones. But I also think there might be a very small amount of moving average smoothing involved too.

                      There's one person here who could probably give us chapter and verse, rather than all this deduction and guesswork.

                      P.

                      Comment

                      • Shaun Reinson
                        Automated Home Jr Member
                        • Feb 2017
                        • 16

                        This update sounds great, when are we supposed to get it - mine is still on some V1 and not upgraded at all.

                        It was offline over xmas (power cut whilst away!!) so wonder if I missed it ?

                        Can it be forced ??

                        Thanks

                        Comment

                        • G4RHL
                          Automated Home Legend
                          • Jan 2015
                          • 1580

                          Originally posted by Shaun Reinson View Post
                          This update sounds great, when are we supposed to get it - mine is still on some V1 and not upgraded at all.

                          It was offline over xmas (power cut whilst away!!) so wonder if I missed it ?

                          Can it be forced ??

                          Thanks
                          It is not rolled out yet. There was a window before Christmas when you could get an early release if you were around at the relevant time to request it. One day!

                          Comment

                          • Shaun Reinson
                            Automated Home Jr Member
                            • Feb 2017
                            • 16

                            Oh thats a shame - emailed support a few minutes ago requesting an update before reading this.....

                            Do we have an estimated release date ?

                            And will they ever get it working with Smartthings ?? (I know, I know.....)

                            Thanks

                            Comment

                            • duckworp
                              Automated Home Lurker
                              • Dec 2017
                              • 9

                              Originally posted by Rameses View Post
                              All

                              We have decided to skip the intermediate update and combine into a more major update. By doing this we can make best use of the deployment roll out window and get out to you quicker.

                              Our Beta tester & F&F testers would have received this over weekend, and by tomorrow (takes a few days, the push servers do in blocks based on verification and retries)

                              If final testing goes well - you should have this well in time for Christmas.

                              WiFi 02.00.17.00 and Application 02.00.17.03
                              - Hot water boost function (if you have Stored HW)
                              - Icon change on Hot water
                              - Wi-Fi channels 12/13 fix
                              - Ghost zone fix (for the few users that still had it)
                              - Heat demand per zone is indicated (inside settings)
                              - Electric zone support
                              - Outside weather display
                              - Plus other maintenance and security improvements
                              Hello,
                              I am new to Honeywell Evocomfort and to this forum. After reading this thread I wrote to Honeywell asking to have the latest firmware as my firmware was still running application software 01.00.03.00 and wifi software 01.00.02.00. They have since upgraded me to app 01.00.07.01 and wifi 01.00.06.10 but these don't have any of the improvements listed here, particularly the ability to be able to use Channel 12 on wifi which I really need as my main wifi runs on channel 12.
                              Does anyone know how to get these upgraded? I asked Honeywell's help desk and they say the one I now have is the latest, which clearly it is not. To be honest, the help desk is not great as they did not even know about the application software, saying initially that the application software was the app I had on my phone, which it obviously is not.
                              Thanks for any help you can give,
                              Peter

                              Comment

                              • mtmcgavock
                                Automated Home Legend
                                • Mar 2017
                                • 507

                                Originally posted by duckworp View Post
                                Hello,
                                I am new to Honeywell Evocomfort and to this forum. After reading this thread I wrote to Honeywell asking to have the latest firmware as my firmware was still running application software 01.00.03.00 and wifi software 01.00.02.00. They have since upgraded me to app 01.00.07.01 and wifi 01.00.06.10 but these don't have any of the improvements listed here, particularly the ability to be able to use Channel 12 on wifi which I really need as my main wifi runs on channel 12.
                                Does anyone know how to get these upgraded? I asked Honeywell's help desk and they say the one I now have is the latest, which clearly it is not. To be honest, the help desk is not great as they did not even know about the application software, saying initially that the application software was the app I had on my phone, which it obviously is not.
                                Thanks for any help you can give,
                                Peter
                                If you read through the posts the above software was available for a short period for Beta testers who applied before a certain date to receive the update before Christmas. The 'official' update for end users is apparently going to be released soon, so unfortunately you may have to wait till then.

                                Comment

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