New evohome FW - update WiFi 02.00.17.00 and Application 02.00.17.03

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  • DBMandrake
    Automated Home Legend
    • Sep 2014
    • 2361

    Originally posted by fergie View Post
    Cheers DBM - Shall try that. Its one of the largest rooms and the radiator is in a bay with a dresser in front of it - though I did take the back off the dresser so plenty room for air to circulate. Its also on the colder (prevailing wind) side of the house.
    The dresser would explain it.

    Rated output power of a radiator is a combination of both convection and direct infrared line of sight radiation from the panel - even if it can freely convect you'll lose nearly all of the direct IR radiation into the room having a radiator behind a dresser or sofa etc... All the infrared output of the panel will do is heat the back of the dresser.

    Although there's some debate about what proportion of the heat into the room is convection vs radiation on a convector panel, I reckon you'd lose about 30-40% of the heat output capability of the radiator by reducing it to convection only.

    In our living room we have 3 linked bay window radiators - which cope just fine most of the year but as soon as the Christmas tree goes in they start to struggle to reach the set point and warm up times get a lot longer, despite there being no obstruction to the convection into the room. It's the loss of the direct IR radiation wasted warming the back of the tree that is responsible..

    For any given radiator and room situation there is a maximum set point the room can reach with the radiator going full blast - as you get close to that maximum especially within a degree or so the call for heat to try to get the last little bit of the way there will skyrocket, hence if its struggling a small drop in set point can help a lot.

    Comment

    • dty
      Automated Home Ninja
      • Aug 2016
      • 489

      Originally posted by bruce_miranda View Post
      Maybe someone with an OT monitor can confirm? @dty or @The EVOHOME Shop has one.
      I still haven't built mine, I'm afraid. On the bright side, today I moved the components into the same room as the soldering iron. Still haven't actually opened the boxes to check I got what I ordered... 6 months ago.

      Comment

      • rvb99
        Automated Home Sr Member
        • Oct 2017
        • 74

        Originally posted by JosP View Post
        On my system it is telling me also that there is only one zone calling for heat. The Ot bridge is asking the boiler to heat on the same value. If I look on the HCE80 there are more zones activated. Strange thing is that this is not visible on the evotouch (zone calling for heat is 0%).
        remember that HCE80 "zones" do not correspond to Evohome controller zones. The zones on the HCE80 are in effect "ports". You can bind any combination of HCE80 zones to an Evohome controller zone. E.g in my case in one room I have HCE80 zones ("ports") 1 & 2 bound to a single Evohome controller zone. The reason is that I have 5 pipe circuits in that single Evohome controller zone. 3 actuators are conected to zone1 (port1) of the HCE80 and 2 circuits (actuators) conected to zone2 (port2) of the HCE80.

        Remember the wiring of an HCE80 allows direct connection of 3 actuators to port1, 2 to port 2 and 1 each to ports 3-5 or 1 each to ports 3-8 with the extender.

        In your case it could be that you are seeing multiple "zones" on the HCE light up as they are all bound to the same evocontroller zone. By the way what safety mechanism is used in your system to prevent floor overheating ? Is there a manifold or floor thermostat that can shut off the boiler, pump or valves ?
        Last edited by rvb99; 22 January 2018, 01:20 PM.

        Comment

        • JosP
          Automated Home Lurker
          • Dec 2017
          • 7

          Originally posted by rvb99 View Post
          remember that HCE80 "zones" do not correspond to Evohome controller zones. The zones on the HCE80 are in effect "ports". You can bind any combination of HCE80 zones to an Evohome controller zone. E.g in my case in one room I have HCE80 zones ("ports") 1 & 2 bound to a single Evohome controller zone. The reason is that I have 5 pipe circuits in that single Evohome controller zone. 3 actuators are conected to zone1 (port1) of the HCE80 and 2 circuits (actuators) conected to zone2 (port2) of the HCE80.

          Remember the wiring of an HCE80 allows direct connection of 3 actuators to port1, 2 to port 2 and 1 each to ports 3-5 or 1 each to ports 3-8 with the extender.

          In your case it could be that you are seeing multiple "zones" on the HCE light up as they are all bound to the same evocontroller zone. By the way what safety mechanism is used in your system to prevent floor overheating ? Is there a manifold or floor thermostat that can shut off the boiler, pump or valves ?
          I know that HCE80 "zones" do not correspondent to Evohome zones. It would be better that I had called it ports on the HCE80 instead of zones. Thanks for that.

          At the moment there is no safety mecahnism to prevent floor overheating. The only "safety" is that I have set the maximum temperature in the parameters @50 deg.c. On the frontpanel I have set the maximum temperature @ 40 deg.c. for floor heating and it is not possible to set the temperature higher then 50 deg.c. I have asked Intergas what whil happen if the temperature sensor is defect. The boiler will stop heating then. So that is failsafe. If you look in the Intergas manual (see drawing Giel538 #262) they advise to connect a maximum thermostate (A) and connect it in serial with the open/close contact of the thermostate. I am in discussion with the installer of the floor heating/boiler because I am not happy that I don't have a safety mechanism as showed on the drawing of intergas.

          Comment

          • rvb99
            Automated Home Sr Member
            • Oct 2017
            • 74

            Originally posted by JosP View Post
            I know that HCE80 "zones" do not correspondent to Evohome zones. It would be better that I had called it ports on the HCE80 instead of zones. Thanks for that.

            At the moment there is no safety mecahnism to prevent floor overheating. The only "safety" is that I have set the maximum temperature in the parameters @50 deg.c. On the frontpanel I have set the maximum temperature @ 40 deg.c. for floor heating and it is not possible to set the temperature higher then 50 deg.c. I have asked Intergas what whil happen if the temperature sensor is defect. The boiler will stop heating then. So that is failsafe. If you look in the Intergas manual (see drawing Giel538 #262) they advise to connect a maximum thermostate (A) and connect it in serial with the open/close contact of the thermostate. I am in discussion with the installer of the floor heating/boiler because I am not happy that I don't have a safety mechanism as showed on the drawing of intergas.

            Still trying to get to grips with your system
            Is the HCE80 connected in anyway directly back to the boiler , either through the pump relay or the boiler feedback connection (depends on the HCC80 version you have)?. Also is the system bound correctly. E.g everything uniquely bound via the Evohome controller. E.g HCC80 is not bound directly to the OT bridge ? or there is no double binding to the OT bridge ? Maybe try unbinding everything and starting again, especially if a 3rd party installed it.
            Last edited by rvb99; 22 January 2018, 03:19 PM.

            Comment

            • JosP
              Automated Home Lurker
              • Dec 2017
              • 7

              There are no connections between the HCE80's and the boiler. The only connection to the boiler is coming from the Evotouch via the OT bridge. Everything is bounded correctly from the Evotouch to the HCE80's (MT-4 valves). This is checked and double checked. Everything was installed by a 3rd party, (for example 5 zones on 1 port what is not done). Therefore I disconnected everything, reset everything to factory setings and started again, connected and bound correctly.
              What do you mean with the boiler feedback connection? Is that the open/close contact from the HCE80 to the boiler (it is not used).

              Comment

              • rvb99
                Automated Home Sr Member
                • Oct 2017
                • 74

                On some versions of the HCC80 there is provision of a boiler feedback, that provides a 42V relay feedback from the HCC80 to the boiler based on the valve position- see installation guide https://www.honeywelluk.com/document...%20version.pdf

                Also I know this might sound stupid, but just check the position of the NC/NO switch for the actuators. Initially my HCC80 was delivered with the switch set to NO, whereas my actuators are NC. The system actually seemed to work initially! , but quickly realised it was actually shutting the actuators on a call for heat.
                Last edited by rvb99; 22 January 2018, 05:52 PM.

                Comment

                • JosP
                  Automated Home Lurker
                  • Dec 2017
                  • 7

                  Oké, the boiler feedback is not used. Everything works fine. The only thing what I see is that there is only 1 zone calling for heat on the Evotouch. If I look on the HCE80 at the same time there are more ports activated. That is my point. That is in my opinion strange. The NC/NO switch is in the correct position.
                  Last edited by JosP; 22 January 2018, 06:44 PM.

                  Comment

                  • fergie
                    Automated Home Sr Member
                    • Mar 2017
                    • 92

                    Originally posted by DBMandrake View Post
                    The dresser would explain it.

                    Rated output power of a radiator is a combination of both convection and direct infrared line of sight radiation from the panel - even if it can freely convect you'll lose nearly all of the direct IR radiation into the room having a radiator behind a dresser or sofa etc... All the infrared output of the panel will do is heat the back of the dresser.

                    Although there's some debate about what proportion of the heat into the room is convection vs radiation on a convector panel, I reckon you'd lose about 30-40% of the heat output capability of the radiator by reducing it to convection only.

                    In our living room we have 3 linked bay window radiators - which cope just fine most of the year but as soon as the Christmas tree goes in they start to struggle to reach the set point and warm up times get a lot longer, despite there being no obstruction to the convection into the room. It's the loss of the direct IR radiation wasted warming the back of the tree that is responsible..

                    For any given radiator and room situation there is a maximum set point the room can reach with the radiator going full blast - as you get close to that maximum especially within a degree or so the call for heat to try to get the last little bit of the way there will skyrocket, hence if its struggling a small drop in set point can help a lot.
                    Its only about 20% of the rad that is actually covered, but it is a large room and all counter acts I guess.

                    Thinking about it logically, what I would like is a setting that lets me set the maximum heat call (as a percentage) per room. That way rather than having the boiler running flat out to heat a particular room as fast as it can, I can let the room heat up gradually and therefore more efficiently.

                    Comment

                    • DBMandrake
                      Automated Home Legend
                      • Sep 2014
                      • 2361

                      Originally posted by fergie View Post
                      Thinking about it logically, what I would like is a setting that lets me set the maximum heat call (as a percentage) per room. That way rather than having the boiler running flat out to heat a particular room as fast as it can, I can let the room heat up gradually and therefore more efficiently.
                      Doesn't make sense to me to complicate things by having a per zone "heat limit".

                      You say you want it to let the room "heat up gradually", but limiting the maximum heat demand would also limit the set point attainable - exactly the problem you're already having where it is taking an 80% heat demand just to reach the set point.

                      If you artificially limit the heat demand that zone could call for to say 50% then it wouldn't come anywhere near its set point when it's the only zone calling for heat, but when other zones call for a high heat it would. But then when it was the only zone calling for heat again the temperature would fall below the target.

                      If you want to reduce the maximum heat call for all zones, just turn the flow temperature maximum down a bit!

                      Comment

                      • fergie
                        Automated Home Sr Member
                        • Mar 2017
                        • 92

                        Originally posted by DBMandrake View Post

                        If you want to reduce the maximum heat call for all zones, just turn the flow temperature maximum down a bit!
                        Which seems to take us back to the problem we see with OT and a lot of boilers. In that it seems to over ride the boiler’s own algorithms.

                        Guess I’ll need to contact Atag to see if it’s possible to reduce the max output when the demand is for heat or if they have any other solutions.

                        Comment

                        • Veliferum
                          Automated Home Lurker
                          • Jan 2018
                          • 2

                          Originally posted by Gdog47 View Post
                          Updates received and working well on my Evohome controller with no apparent problems, but I have noticed the following error messages on my Domoticz-Synology-HGI80 setup since then.

                          2018-01-18 23:11:51.803 Error: evohome: unable to decode payload for command 3ef0
                          2018-01-19 00:11:48.563 Error: evohome: ACTUATOR_STATE: Error decoding command, unknown packet size: 1

                          This pair of errors occur three times every hour, within a second. If I power down my Evohome controller the errors stop, but they start again after about 4 minutes of powering up the controller and continue hourly thereafter.

                          It seems like the controller is sending out an hourly “sync” signal that is not being decoded by my Domoticz setup, but is not affecting my Evohome functionality.

                          Does anyone else have this problem, or a solution.
                          @Gdog47
                          I Have the same problem with Domoticz-RaspBerry-HGI80 setup, only more frequent:
                          2018-01-23 19:29:28.239 Error: evohome: ACTUATOR_STATE: Error decoding command, unknown packet size: 1
                          2018-01-23 19:29:28.240 Error: evohome: unable to decode payload for command 3ef0
                          2018-01-23 19:29:29.672 (EvoHome-HGI80) Heating (EH-Temp Living)
                          2018-01-23 19:29:29.673 (EvoHome-HGI80) Heating (EH-Temp Bedroom)
                          2018-01-23 19:29:29.674 (EvoHome-HGI80) Heating (EH-Temp Office)
                          2018-01-23 19:29:29.686 (EvoHome-HGI80) Heating (EH-Temp Living)
                          2018-01-23 19:29:29.687 (EvoHome-HGI80) Heating (EH-Temp Bedroom)
                          2018-01-23 19:29:29.688 (EvoHome-HGI80) Heating (EH-Temp Office)
                          2018-01-23 19:29:30.111 (EvoHome-HGI80) Heating (EH-Temp Living)
                          2018-01-23 19:29:30.240 Error: evohome: ACTUATOR_STATE: Error decoding command, unknown packet size: 1
                          2018-01-23 19:29:30.240 Error: evohome: unable to decode payload for command 3ef0
                          2018-01-23 19:29:31.111 (EvoHome-HGI80) Heating (EH-Temp Bedroom)
                          2018-01-23 19:29:32.111 (EvoHome-HGI80) Heating (EH-Temp Office)

                          Comment

                          • bruce_miranda
                            Automated Home Legend
                            • Jul 2014
                            • 2307

                            Yes same here but not surprising either. The Domoticz message definitions have not been updated for quite a while. Infact now with the Heat Demand % it's clear that the HGI80 has been decoded incorrectly for the Heat Demand % for atleast some Devices e.g. Opentherm and BDR91 zones.

                            Comment

                            • DJBenson
                              Automated Home Jr Member
                              • Feb 2016
                              • 24

                              Originally posted by paulockenden View Post
                              Has anyone here used the HC60NG with Evohome? I know the 'official' Honeywell advice is that it isn't compatible, but I'm also sure I read somewhere (not sure if it was here) about someone using it.

                              That drives 10A resistive or 3A inductive.
                              I have the HC60NG in my setup - when I moved into the house it had a Baxi boiler with Honeywell "dumb" controls - I didn't even check if the existing relay was compatible (as I wasn't altering any wiring the only issue would have been if it hadn't paired), I just followed the pairing instructions and it worked (and has done ever since).

                              Comment

                              • robj20
                                Automated Home Sr Member
                                • Aug 2017
                                • 76

                                Woke up this morning to find the house freezing couldnt figure out why, boiler showed no demand, yet the valves and evohome showed the correct target temps. Just as if evohome hadnt sent the demand to the boiler.

                                Anyway noticed the outside temp at the top so thought it must have updated which it has i now have the demand in % shown in deep settings.
                                Took the batteries out and back in and the heating fired up.

                                Is this normal that a firmware update can mess things up until you restart the device?

                                Comment

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