Adding thermaskirt to a room where we have a single zone evohome

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  • dcreager
    Automated Home Jr Member
    • Nov 2014
    • 28

    Adding thermaskirt to a room where we have a single zone evohome

    Hi,

    So I have an existing Intergas/Evohome single zone system. Evohome control is the Evohome WiFi with a BDR91 relay controlling boiler.

    I am now about to install thermaskirt to two rooms. They have supplied two wired thermostats, with electronic control valves.


    I really want wireless thermostats. Ideally, I would add these two rooms as two extra zones 'in' my Evohome.

    Is this possible? What hardware would I need to buy?


    Any pointers/suggestions of what to search for, greatly appreciated.


    Thanks in advance,

    David
  • dcreager
    Automated Home Jr Member
    • Nov 2014
    • 28

    #2
    Ok....so my question was clearly poorly formed. My research suggests that for each room I need a DT92E Thermostat, a MT8 Acutator (to control the supply to the thermaskirt) and a BDR91 relay.


    Will this work? Specifically I want each room to trigger the actuator and call for heat from the heat source, when the thermostat triggers?


    Will my evohome controller do this? Specifically, will the controller call for heat until all of the temperature sensors signify they have reached the correct temperature?


    I am trying to ensure that I have a feasible proposal before approaching any installers


    Thanks in advance

    Comment

    • Mac4
      Automated Home Lurker
      • Sep 2018
      • 7

      #3
      Hi David, I am new to this forum but have completed more than 200 evohome installs I may be able to help a bit. Am I correct in thinking the skirting heating is simply a pipe loop within the skirting enclosure with a control unit at one end ?

      Comment

      • Jabes
        Automated Home Sr Member
        • Aug 2017
        • 68

        #4
        Originally posted by Mac4 View Post
        Hi David, I am new to this forum but have completed more than 200 evohome installs I may be able to help a bit. Am I correct in thinking the skirting heating is simply a pipe loop within the skirting enclosure with a control unit at one end ?
        You'll have to let us all know how good thermaskirt is... I am having a new floor put in all over the place and was considering UFH, but...

        Comment

        • dcreager
          Automated Home Jr Member
          • Nov 2014
          • 28

          #5
          Originally posted by Mac4 View Post
          Hi David, I am new to this forum but have completed more than 200 evohome installs I may be able to help a bit. Am I correct in thinking the skirting heating is simply a pipe loop within the skirting enclosure with a control unit at one end ?
          Mmmh….it has a feed/return mechanism at one end, this can have an ugly thermostat TRV on it to control, however, I have opted to have a concealed actuator valve. I think I have a solution now....


          I need a wireless thermostat (Honeywell Y87RF) for the room which I plan to bind to my evohome as a sensor. I also need a BDR91 relay to operate the Actuator valve which I will also bind to the evohome.


          I imagine that these two bindings will form a zone!, but have not quite got that bottomed out.

          Comment

          • dcreager
            Automated Home Jr Member
            • Nov 2014
            • 28

            #6
            Originally posted by Jabes View Post
            You'll have to let us all know how good thermaskirt is... I am having a new floor put in all over the place and was considering UFH, but...
            I will.....I am intrigued as well.....I imagine January 2019 I will either be warm, smug and happy or cold and miserable

            Comment

            • paulockenden
              Automated Home Legend
              • Apr 2015
              • 1719

              #7
              The trouble with using an BDR91 is that you won't get 'proper' proportional control (only fake proportional using on/off periods). You also won't get the room learning stuff that at HR92 gives.

              Is there no way to hide an HR92 somewhere out of sight? I think it would give better control.

              Comment

              • Mac4
                Automated Home Lurker
                • Sep 2018
                • 7

                #8
                Yes that will do it, just bind it as a zone valve in zone options. Not to be confused with system devices. When that zone calls for heat it will send a signal to open the heating zone valve if you have one or boiler via a BDR91. Hope you understand.

                Comment

                • dcreager
                  Automated Home Jr Member
                  • Nov 2014
                  • 28

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Mac4 View Post
                  Yes that will do it, just bind it as a zone valve in zone options. Not to be confused with system devices. When that zone calls for heat it will send a signal to open the heating zone valve if you have one or boiler via a BDR91. Hope you understand.
                  Yes....I do understand. Thanks. Exciting!

                  Comment

                  • dcreager
                    Automated Home Jr Member
                    • Nov 2014
                    • 28

                    #10
                    Originally posted by paulockenden View Post
                    The trouble with using an BDR91 is that you won't get 'proper' proportional control (only fake proportional using on/off periods). You also won't get the room learning stuff that at HR92 gives.

                    Is there no way to hide an HR92 somewhere out of sight? I think it would give better control.
                    Hmmm...not sure I really understand proportional control. Hiding an HR92 doesn't sound good. Presumably it would not reflect the temperature of the room. I expected/hoped the 'clever' optimisation would be around what temperature the thermostat reported...ie bring heating (BDR19 for the thermaskirt) on early if the temp was low and evohome 'knew' it takes time to heat the room to the desired temp.

                    Comment

                    • paulockenden
                      Automated Home Legend
                      • Apr 2015
                      • 1719

                      #11
                      An HR92 will partially open to keep the room temperature constant. A BDR91 will keep opening and closing at a fixed cycle to approximate the same. But it'll never be as good. If you also use a BDR91 for boiler control then at least the cycles will be synchronised, but if you use OpenTherm then the boiler will ramp down to a low(er) temperature but the BDR91 controlling your skirting board will continue to pulse on and off. While off the boiler will just be chugging away to itself.

                      If you could hide an HR92 somewhere (in a cupboard or under an easily accessible floorboard) then I think you'd end up with both better control and a more efficient system.

                      Others may disagree.

                      Comment

                      • Mac4
                        Automated Home Lurker
                        • Sep 2018
                        • 7

                        #12
                        I would control it with the BDR92, but it is possible to use a HR92 set up as an actuator only and have a remote temperature sensor as with the BDR92. You can fit an inline compatible TRV body on the flow pipe. It's up to you really both would work. But I think you have an actuator with the skirting set ? Simple is good !

                        Comment

                        • dcreager
                          Automated Home Jr Member
                          • Nov 2014
                          • 28

                          #13
                          Originally posted by paulockenden View Post
                          An HR92 will partially open to keep the room temperature constant. A BDR91 will keep opening and closing at a fixed cycle to approximate the same. But it'll never be as good. If you also use a BDR91 for boiler control then at least the cycles will be synchronised, but if you use OpenTherm then the boiler will ramp down to a low(er) temperature but the BDR91 controlling your skirting board will continue to pulse on and off. While off the boiler will just be chugging away to itself.

                          If you could hide an HR92 somewhere (in a cupboard or under an easily accessible floorboard) then I think you'd end up with both better control and a more efficient system.

                          Others may disagree.
                          So would the temperature sensor be the HR92? surely it would not report the temperature of the room if it was in a cupboard or under the floor?

                          Ah sorry....just saw Mac's response......It could be used as an acutator

                          Comment

                          • dcreager
                            Automated Home Jr Member
                            • Nov 2014
                            • 28

                            #14
                            Thanks very much to all...….Very helpful. I will go with the BDR91 as it seems slightly cleaner (rather than have a battery to worry about). I'll let you know how it goes <crosses fingers>

                            Comment

                            • dcreager
                              Automated Home Jr Member
                              • Nov 2014
                              • 28

                              #15
                              Update

                              I changed my strategy after thinking about the comments above, I read a bit more from this forum and decided to go all in for Evohome. I bought 14 HR92s and 4 of the round thermostats (YR??).
                              I now have 90% if my house evohome controlled (2 towel radiators,1 tiny WC radiator and attic conversion electric rads not under Evohome) I have to say, I LOVE it....even with the old fashioned UIs and the flakey mobile app performance reported elsewhere in these forums.

                              For the Thermaskirt control, I actually arranged power so I could either do BDR91 controls or HR92s . I am currently using the HR92s

                              Lounge Thermaskirt installation was completed Dec 7th. It was a bit of a mixed story, their instructions are full of traps and we made a number of c**k ups, the worst being that when we laid our carpet we experienced a minor flood, we recovered and all ended up fine. I sort of take blame for this because I used a stressed plumber who, although very competent and careful, suffered because English was not his first language. He and I are very confident we will have no trouble installing in our Dining Room (in the next few weeks). He liked the product but not the instructions. I think our conclusion was the installation doesn't require anything difficult, just a careful study of the instructions. We had rushed it

                              The size of the room and the available skirting was quite borderline (using their calculations for heat output). We used the three pipe version (which added to the instruction flails as it is not at all well integrated in the documentation) to increase heat output. We also had threshold emitters for a 3 metre patio door opening.

                              Aesthetically, the result is BRILLIANT. Also the type of heat seems nice, less stuffy and oppressive than radiators, but this might be psychological. The room is probably 50 sq metres .

                              It does seem to take longer to heat the room to temperature to my wife and cat's requirements (23C), but Evohome seems to take care of it.

                              So overall and so far I like Thermaskirt, I would use it instead of radiators if I can.

                              Have to say, I am basking in the joy of Evohome, so some of this might be reflecting on Thermaskirt.

                              Happy to provide more info if anyone else is considering Thermaskirt. Also will provide an update when we 'do' the Dining Room
                              Last edited by dcreager; 8 January 2019, 07:43 PM.

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