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Thread: Evohome new user

  1. #1
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    Default Evohome new user

    Hi guys, this looks a great place for EvoHome advice, I wonder if somebody could point me in the right direction?

    We've recently moved house and had a new heating system installed - standard Worcester gas boiler, unvented tank, S-plan system, 2 x BDR91's one for hot water, one for heating and 21 radiators. Each BDR91 also fires the boiler when it's engaged.

    The plan is to fit 16 of these radiators with HR92's, 4 with standard TRV's (in the hallway, don't need them to be able to call for heat) and one in the En-Suite that has no TRV .

    So far, our installer has fitted the system and he has left us with the EvoHome controller running in a single-zone thermostat mode as I thought adding a bunch of HR92's and setting up some zones would be straightforward enough (my background is software/firmware & hardware).

    However, on installing the controller, he had great difficulty getting it to control the BDR91's and had to make 3 calls to Honeywell to get it working correctly so I'm now left in a position of being a bit worried about re-configuring and losing our heating system and would like some re-assurance / advice.

    He didn't have any problem with communication (although Honeywell made him relocate the 2 BDR91's to be further apart), but whatever way he had the bindings set up, whenever he bound the hot water and the boiler relays then ran the RF Comms test for the hot water, it would flash the red lights on both BDR91's - is this correct or is this some form of double-bind that has been accidentally configured? We'd get the same when testing the hot water through the RF Comms.

    I'm not sure how he corrected this as I wasn't in the house that day, but he said it was to do with re-setting the controller up from scratch, then deleting the first zone and re-adding it. It's all now working, but when I look at the System Summary it says

    Stored Hot Water - No Devices Bound
    Living Room - Zone valve, Evotouch Sensor (so he has the boiler BDR91 configured as the Zone Valve and is using Controller as thermostat with no HR92s)

    I'm not sure how it's calling for hot water, but it does?

    I added a zone that appears as:
    Study - Radiator Valve

    But this zone is unable to call for heat - from reading around, I think this is because the controller is in single-zone mode. I need to find the best way to set this up for the 9 zones I require but I am kinda worried as there's no way that I can see of recording all the settings / backing up the configuration to be able to get back to where I am now if I mess up.

    I've gone through the Honeywell online training, just hopeful somebody could explain why the RF Comms was working the way it was (both BDR91 flashing on test), and what way the binding should be configured to allow me to get the zones programmed in so they can all call for heat.

    I really miss a "proper" manual for this thing, like explanations of which specific bindings are used in which circumstances. I *think* being an S-Plan, even though I have a BDR91, I shouldn't be binding it as a "Boiler Relay" ... something about because mine was a Connected Thermostat Pack and a Hot Water Kit, it should be pre-bound, but I'm not positive about that

    Any advice / links to great articles that I haven't yet found would be greatly appreciated!

  2. #2
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    It sounds like you need to completely clear the bindings from the BDR91s (they can be bound to up to 4 devices, and only need to be bound to the controller in an Evohome install). Don't just rebind them - clear them and start from scratch. Rebinding will just add another new binding and make matters worse.

    If your BDR91s are connected to the zone valves and then the orange wires from the valves are used to fire the boiler and pump, then you don't have a boiler relay and you shouldn't have one configured in the system. So you'll need to clear down and reconfigure the controller too. A boiler relay is configured when you have a BDR91 directly controlling your boiler and not your valves.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jemster View Post
    He didn't have any problem with communication (although Honeywell made him relocate the 2 BDR91's to be further apart), but whatever way he had the bindings set up, whenever he bound the hot water and the boiler relays then ran the RF Comms test for the hot water, it would flash the red lights on both BDR91's - is this correct or is this some form of double-bind that has been accidentally configured? We'd get the same when testing the hot water through the RF Comms.
    Yes this is correct. It sounds wrong but when you do the RF test for heating and hot water the red LED on both BDR91's will flash - my system certainly does this and mine is correctly set up, so I wouldn't worry about that.
    Stored Hot Water - No Devices Bound
    Living Room - Zone valve, Evotouch Sensor (so he has the boiler BDR91 configured as the Zone Valve and is using Controller as thermostat with no HR92s)

    I'm not sure how it's calling for hot water, but it does?
    Ok this is all completely wrong. It won't be controlling hot water correctly if you have no stored hot water configured.
    But this zone is unable to call for heat - from reading around, I think this is because the controller is in single-zone mode. I need to find the best way to set this up for the 9 zones I require but I am kinda worried as there's no way that I can see of recording all the settings / backing up the configuration to be able to get back to where I am now if I mess up.
    There's no way to do a "backup" of the configuration, but since everything is set up wrong at the moment you wouldn't want to save it anyway!
    I've gone through the Honeywell online training, just hopeful somebody could explain why the RF Comms was working the way it was (both BDR91 flashing on test), and what way the binding should be configured to allow me to get the zones programmed in so they can all call for heat.

    I really miss a "proper" manual for this thing, like explanations of which specific bindings are used in which circumstances. I *think* being an S-Plan, even though I have a BDR91, I shouldn't be binding it as a "Boiler Relay" ... something about because mine was a Connected Thermostat Pack and a Hot Water Kit, it should be pre-bound, but I'm not positive about that
    In this situation I would start over from scratch and remove all bindings as everything seems to be in a right mess. So I would:

    1) In the controller, make sure both stored hot water and boiler control are set to "none" to remove any bindings to the BDR91's.
    2) Clear the bindings on the BDR91's themselves - to do this hold down the button on the BDR91's for more than 15 seconds until the slow flash changes to a quick flash. This means the bindings are cleared.
    3) Clear the bindings on the HR92's - to do this you press the button so the screen lights then release then press again and hold, wait until you see bind, then release, then press and hold until you see "cleared". (instead of a quick press to bind)

    Now you know all previous bindings are cleared.

    4) Chose the option to clear all settings in the controller
    5) Use the wizard to set up a multi-zone system.

    It should prompt you to bind the hot water sensor, hot water zone valve relay, heating zone valve relay. If at any point it asks you if you have a boiler relay say NO, because you only have two relays and the boiler is connected to the zone valve orange wires.

    You can then create zones one at a time and add each HR92 to the zone. If you have more than one HR92 in a zone add the one which you wish to be the temperature sensor first then the remaining ones in the zone when prompted for additional actuators. Make sure you choose radiator controller as the type of zone when adding zones.

    Hope that clears things up, and yes, the installation instructions are not brilliant. The steps for performing bindings on specific devices are covered etc, but there is no real "overview" document that says why you should be doing what you are doing especially in regards to whether you have a boiler control relay or not which is a common point of confusion.

    You would only have a boiler control relay if either (a) the system was heating only without hot water control (combi boiler etc) or you have 3x BDR91 (as I do) where you can have a heating zone relay, hot water relay, and boiler control relay.

    In an S-Plan system with only two relays and the boiler connected to the zone valve switches you do not have a separate boiler control relay thus it should be set to none.
    Last edited by DBMandrake; 6th December 2018 at 11:22 AM.

  4. #4
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    Thanks very much for the reply.

    When you say clear the BDR91's, that is just holding down the button for 15 seconds until I get the quick flashing, then release and hold again for 5 seconds to get it into binding mode. There's no other steps involved?

    So if I clear down the boiler relay binding, how does the EvoHome start the boiler whenever an HR92 calls for heat? What should that BDR91 be bound to? I'm just trying to get my head around this so I know what I'll be doing wrong

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jemster View Post
    Thanks very much for the reply.

    When you say clear the BDR91's, that is just holding down the button for 15 seconds until I get the quick flashing, then release and hold again for 5 seconds to get it into binding mode. There's no other steps involved?
    Clearing the binding is holding it down for over 15 seconds until it is flashing quickly. Holding it down for 5 seconds until it flashes slowly puts it into binding mode - don't do that until you are at the correct step in the binding process where it is asking you to do this. For example you don't want both BDR91's sitting there in binding mode (slow flash) when you are trying to bind one of them as it won't know which to bind to.
    So if I clear down the boiler relay binding, how does the EvoHome start the boiler whenever an HR92 calls for heat? What should that BDR91 be bound to? I'm just trying to get my head around this so I know what I'll be doing wrong
    Well, how many BDR91's do you have ?

    I am assuming you have two BDR91's, one controlling your heating zone valve and one controlling your hot water zone valve. Then the orange wires from the switches in both zone valves go to your boiler to fire it ? This is the most common configuration.

    In this case you do not configure a boiler control relay - the heating zone valve relay will go on when an HR92 calls for heat which will open the heating zone valve, close the switch in the zone valve and the boiler will fire.

    When there is hot water reheat demand the hot water relay will go on, open the hot water zone valve, and it's switch will also fire the boiler, if it wasn't already due to heating demand.

    By the way a quick press of the button on the BDR91's will temporarily override them into either the on or off state - this is useful for checking that your zone valves are wired and working correctly, and can be done even before they are bound to the controller.
    Last edited by DBMandrake; 6th December 2018 at 11:27 AM.

  6. #6
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    Overlapping postings there, sorry DBMandrake!

    Your instructions are great, makes perfect sense - there's only two BDR91's and yes, one is hot water and the other I now know is a Heating Zone Valve Relay rather than a Boiler Relay.

    Somehow it does seem to call for hot water independently of the heating so I've no idea what way he has it configured. I'll nuke it all and start again as per your instructions. I guess I'm just apprehensive about touching anything when it's so cold outside... the first night he put it in, he ended up hard-wiring the relay boxes just to leave us with heat for the evening and I don't want that happening again.

    My installer is a good plumber and on Honeywells list of installers for my area but to be honest, he doesn't have much experience of the EvoHome - has one in his own home but now tells me he has never configured Zones

  7. #7
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    Sigh

    Think I’m still confused here as I’ve just been back through the procedure.

    When I configured the hot water it gave me an option I wasn’t sure of:

    Stored Hot Water Configuration
    Bind hot water sensor - done
    Then it says
    ‘What kind of valve(s) do you use to control flow to hot water cylinder and heating
    2 two port or three port valves
    Hot water valve only

    So I pick the first option
    Bind the hot water valve
    Then it wants me to bind the heating valve
    (There’s no getting out of it, I either do it or back out step by step back to the beginning)
    So I have the heating valve bound. I assume this is correct then?

    If I then boost the hot water the correct bdr91 turns on and the boiler kicks in. All good. Cancel the boost and it all goes off. Great.

    Go to set up the first zone and I tell it
    Heating type is Radiator Valve (should this be Zone valve?)
    Temperature Sensor is Remote Sensor
    RF Device Binding, I went in here and bound all the hr92s for the zone

    And now the boiler has gone on... despite the room temperature being 19.5 with a schedule of 18 degrees.

    I am sooooo confused. I seem to have hot water perfectly but cannot get the central heating valve to turn on/off with the zone demand.

    My system summary now shows:
    Stored Hot Water: 2 Two Port or Three Port valves (100%, water is scheduled on at the moment)
    Living Room: Radiator Valve (0%)

    I now can’t leave the house as the heat is full-on and I don’t know why. Any help appreciated!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jemster View Post
    Think I’m still confused here as I’ve just been back through the procedure.

    When I configured the hot water it gave me an option I wasn’t sure of:

    Stored Hot Water Configuration
    Bind hot water sensor - done
    Then it says
    ‘What kind of valve(s) do you use to control flow to hot water cylinder and heating
    2 two port or three port valves
    Hot water valve only

    So I pick the first option
    Bind the hot water valve
    Then it wants me to bind the heating valve
    (There’s no getting out of it, I either do it or back out step by step back to the beginning)
    So I have the heating valve bound. I assume this is correct then?
    Yes this is correct. The reason it asks you hot water zone valve only is that it's possible to do an S-Plan system with only a hot water zone valve - provided that all your radiators have HR92's, since if all HR92's close that is equivalent to the heating zone valve closing. As you do have a heating zone valve the first option that you chose was the correct one.

    If I then boost the hot water the correct bdr91 turns on and the boiler kicks in. All good. Cancel the boost and it all goes off. Great.
    So far so good.


    Go to set up the first zone and I tell it
    Heating type is Radiator Valve (should this be Zone valve?)
    Definitely Radiator valve is the correct zone type to choose if you are using HR92's.
    Temperature Sensor is Remote Sensor
    RF Device Binding, I went in here and bound all the hr92s for the zone

    And now the boiler has gone on... despite the room temperature being 19.5 with a schedule of 18 degrees.

    I am sooooo confused. I seem to have hot water perfectly but cannot get the central heating valve to turn on/off with the zone demand.
    I think you may just be jumping the gun a bit worrying. Here's why - the default temperature set point of an HR92 when it boots up (batteries first inserted) is actually 20 degrees. So up until the point you bound it to the controller it's set point would have been 20 degrees. And even after you bind it to the controller, just because the current schedule is 18C doesn't mean that will immediately be sent to a freshly bound HR92 - it probably won't send a set point update to the HR92's you just bound until the next scheduled set point change.

    So in the mean time your HR92's are set to 20C which is slightly warmer than the measured temperature so they will call for heat. I don't think you actually have a problem!

    I would recommend to turn the dial on each HR92 down to 5C (not OFF) manually then check to see if your heating zone valve relay goes off - I bet it does.
    My system summary now shows:
    Stored Hot Water: 2 Two Port or Three Port valves (100%, water is scheduled on at the moment)
    Living Room: Radiator Valve (0%)

    I now can’t leave the house as the heat is full-on and I don’t know why. Any help appreciated!
    Are you sure it's full on ? Are the radiators with HR92's all getting hot ? It's normal for the hot water to say 100% demand when reheating the hot water BTW. That will change to 0% after reheating is finished.

    When you bound the HR92 was it the heating zone valve BDR91 that went on ? So presumably both BDR91's are on at the moment as hot water is heating as well ?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBMandrake View Post
    Yes this is correct. The reason it asks you hot water zone valve only is that it's possible to do an S-Plan system with only a hot water zone valve - provided that all your radiators have HR92's, since if all HR92's close that is equivalent to the heating zone valve closing. As you do have a heating zone valve the first option that you chose was the correct one.

    So far so good.



    Definitely Radiator valve is the correct zone type to choose if you are using HR92's.
    Thanks for your reassurance here, good to have confirmation that I've gone the right way.

    Quote Originally Posted by DBMandrake View Post
    I think you may just be jumping the gun a bit worrying. Here's why - the default temperature set point of an HR92 when it boots up (batteries first inserted) is actually 20 degrees. So up until the point you bound it to the controller it's set point would have been 20 degrees. And even after you bind it to the controller, just because the current schedule is 18C doesn't mean that will immediately be sent to a freshly bound HR92 - it probably won't send a set point update to the HR92's you just bound until the next scheduled set point change.

    So in the mean time your HR92's are set to 20C which is slightly warmer than the measured temperature so they will call for heat. I don't think you actually have a problem!
    I tried going in and overriding the zone temperature downwards to make it turn off the boiler, but nothing happened. I waited, and still nothing happened (boiler valve still switched on) so I thought I'd got it wrong. Maybe I didn't wait long enough - it would be nice if a configuration change resulted in settings being pushed out immediately, in the same way as boosting hot water.

    Quote Originally Posted by DBMandrake View Post
    I would recommend to turn the dial on each HR92 down to 5C (not OFF) manually then check to see if your heating zone valve relay goes off - I bet it does.

    Are you sure it's full on ? Are the radiators with HR92's all getting hot ? It's normal for the hot water to say 100% demand when reheating the hot water BTW. That will change to 0% after reheating is finished.

    When you bound the HR92 was it the heating zone valve BDR91 that went on ? So presumably both BDR91's are on at the moment as hot water is heating as well ?
    I had to go in to the office, so I tried one last time and reset the system and rebound everything... now I seem to have Zone control - I got the living room set up with the 4 HR92's and they appear to be turning on and off the boiler. Yay!!

    But... yeah I know.... has to be a "but" ... but I don't seem to have Hot Water control this time. The water temp is at 49 degrees, its set point is 60 (yep, double-checked that one) and hitting boost isn't turning on the hot water relay. Before I did this reset, that was the bit that worked instantly when I pressed Boost. Now... nothing

    I don't *think* I did anything different this time around. I did bind the hr92's slightly differently - binding the first one and then putting the remaining 3 into Bind mode and having them bind all together instead of individually. Not sure if that made a difference except it seems to now be working for that zone.

    Is there any advantage in pulling the batteries from the controller after picking Factory Reset? I see that mentioned in a few places and haven't tried it yet.

    I totally understand my plumbers frustration and the day he spent trying to get it set up. I feel like I'm sooooo close to being there. If I can figure out why the water isn't going on and off on demand that should be the last bit of the puzzle. Adding the additional Zones "should" be easy enough.

    Thank you so much for your patience and assistance!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jemster View Post
    I tried going in and overriding the zone temperature downwards to make it turn off the boiler, but nothing happened. I waited, and still nothing happened (boiler valve still switched on) so I thought I'd got it wrong. Maybe I didn't wait long enough - it would be nice if a configuration change resulted in settings being pushed out immediately, in the same way as boosting hot water.
    If you change a set point at the controller or using the mobile phone app it takes up to 4 minutes for that change to be pushed out to the HR92's in the zone. This is because there is a scheduled communication window between the controller and the HR92's that occurs approx every 4 minutes, so depending on what point you are currently at in that cycle the response time can vary.

    However if you turn the dial on top of the HR92(s) the set point change will be actioned immediately and it will send a new heat demand to the controller within 10 seconds or so. That's why I suggested adjusting the HR92's directly during testing due to the faster response time.

    BTW this up to 4 minute delay applies to mode changes as well. For example if you use the heating off action, all this really does is send a 5 degree set point to all zones, but there can be an up to 4 minute delay until this applies, meanwhile the boiler will continue to run. Don't panic, this is perfectly normal. Likewise if you go from heating off back to following schedule it will take a few minutes before the boiler is triggered on as this won't happen until the set point change is sent to HR92's and they start calling for heat again.

    Hot water on/off is instant though.
    I had to go in to the office, so I tried one last time and reset the system and rebound everything... now I seem to have Zone control - I got the living room set up with the 4 HR92's and they appear to be turning on and off the boiler. Yay!!

    But... yeah I know.... has to be a "but" ... but I don't seem to have Hot Water control this time. The water temp is at 49 degrees, its set point is 60 (yep, double-checked that one) and hitting boost isn't turning on the hot water relay. Before I did this reset, that was the bit that worked instantly when I pressed Boost. Now... nothing
    "Boost" is poorly named in my opinion - it's a feature that got added in a recent firmware update and it's not that useful in my opinion. All it does is extends the schedule for hot water by one hour, it doesn't boost the temperature - which is what I first assumed when the feature was added!

    Put simply, if the cylinder icon is blue hot water is scheduled to be off, and if it is red it's scheduled to be on. So is the icon red at the moment ?

    If it is red it doesn't necessarily mean the boiler will be on, unless the hot water is below the set point minus differential. Default differential is 10 degrees I think, so the boiler would not be expected to come on until the temperature fell to 49 degrees. (60 - 10 - 1) Have you left the hot water differential set to 10 degrees ? Personally I have mine set to 5 degrees so it doesn't fall too much below the set temperature as I only use a set point of 54.

    I don't *think* I did anything different this time around. I did bind the hr92's slightly differently - binding the first one and then putting the remaining 3 into Bind mode and having them bind all together instead of individually. Not sure if that made a difference except it seems to now be working for that zone.

    Is there any advantage in pulling the batteries from the controller after picking Factory Reset? I see that mentioned in a few places and haven't tried it yet.
    At this point I wouldn't do a factory reset - I think you've nearly got it sorted.

    Edit: Remembered one other tip I've found the hard way - if you make changes to the hot water set point or differential, it can take quite a long time for that to properly take effect due to the way the hot water temperature sensor communication with the controller works. Sometimes rebooting the controller is necessary after changing those two settings to hurry it along.

    So after you have adjusted the hot water temperature and differential to your liking, leave the controller for a couple of minutes to make sure that it has saved that then reboot it - by parting the batteries while off the charging stand.

    Or just wait a few hours rather than rebooting and use your hot water as normal and it should sort itself out.
    Last edited by DBMandrake; 11th December 2018 at 04:48 PM.

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