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Thread: Multitude of EvoHome Issues on new install

  1. #1
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    Default Multitude of EvoHome Issues on new install

    Hi all,

    I have just had EvoHome installed in my home (by an installer) and I am having more problems than I care for. I have searched through this site and can't see the same problem, but I do see similar things.

    1. Some rooms never get up to temperature after the heating has been on for hours. I have 10 zones, mostly with 1 radiator in each. The zones which are set to 18c get up to temperature fine. Some of the rooms which are set to 21c never get above 18c. Only when I set the temp to 35c, do I see an increase in temperature. This is after maybe 2 or 3 hours of having the heat on. I have one room which never gets above 16.5c, it's a small bathroom/toilet with an uninsulated concrete floor - but I would have expected the boiler to be pumping heat continuously until it gets to temperature. It has a 1.5m external wall, all other walls are internal.It has a window which has secondary glazing. The heat loss should not be greater than the output from the radiator.
    I have a 40Kw boiler, and at the time, I was pushing heat to only 6 of the 10 zones.

    I do have a couple of radiators in the house which are not zoned. BUT, these are set to "frost", so there is little to no heat in these radiators.

    2. Hot water temperature is showing online as "NaN". When I search for this term, I find nothing. When I search for "no hot water temperature", I am only seeing results for "wrong hot water temperature". Is this a signal issue? It was working when it was first installed, I could clearly see 47c.

    3. This is probably linked to the above. My controller is showing the following errors:
    COMMS FAULT
    HEATING VALVE
    ACTUATOR

    Before purchasing EvoHome, I hired a RF test kit and found the sweet-spot for the relay, controller, and TRVs. When I test with the actual kit I have bought, I get a "good" signal from the Hot Water relay to the Controller (heating is working fine except point 1, so I did not test). So I know of no reason why there would be a COMMS FAULT.
    In it is nigh on impossible for me to get the relay closer to the controller without drilling holes everywhere and going underneath the floor then drilling through concrete.
    If the RF test (twice) was fine: what should I be telling my installer to look at?

    Hot Water on the app and controller was showing as ON, but there was very little water, the return pipe to the hot water tank was not hot, and the relay was not showing as green. When I manually put it on, it would turn itself off after 30 seconds.

    If any of this has been covered elsewhere and you have links, I am happy to read through to save covering old ground.

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by uhhu View Post
    Hi all,

    I have just had EvoHome installed in my home (by an installer) and I am having more problems than I care for. I have searched through this site and can't see the same problem, but I do see similar things.

    1. Some rooms never get up to temperature after the heating has been on for hours. I have 10 zones, mostly with 1 radiator in each. The zones which are set to 18c get up to temperature fine. Some of the rooms which are set to 21c never get above 18c. Only when I set the temp to 35c, do I see an increase in temperature. This is after maybe 2 or 3 hours of having the heat on. I have one room which never gets above 16.5c, it's a small bathroom/toilet with an uninsulated concrete floor - but I would have expected the boiler to be pumping heat continuously until it gets to temperature. It has a 1.5m external wall, all other walls are internal.It has a window which has secondary glazing. The heat loss should not be greater than the output from the radiator.
    I have a 40Kw boiler, and at the time, I was pushing heat to only 6 of the 10 zones.
    A vital piece of information is missing in your description - in the rooms that are struggling to get to 21 degrees are the radiators actually getting hot to the touch ? Are they getting as hot as other radiators ? Do you have an IR temperature gun that you could point at the radiators to see what panel temperature they are getting up to ? (Although judging it by touch is probably enough)

    With Evohome if the temperature is at least 1.5 degrees below the set point (which it obviously will be if set to 21C but only measuring at 18C) it will fully open the radiator valve and call for full duty cycle from the boiler. Assuming that is happening and the radiator is getting fully hot then the failure to get up to temperature is not Evohome's fault but something else that is causing either too much heat loss in the room (door to a cold room left open ?) or the radiator not heating up properly. (Might be an issue with the radiator valve body, or it's compatibility with the HR92 among other possibilities, such as flow temperature set too low)

    You can see what heat demand each zone is calling for and what heat demand is being sent to the boiler in the installer menu (long press the settings button) by going into system summary. What percentage does it show for the zones struggling to meet their set points ?
    2. Hot water temperature is showing online as "NaN". When I search for this term, I find nothing. When I search for "no hot water temperature", I am only seeing results for "wrong hot water temperature". Is this a signal issue? It was working when it was first installed, I could clearly see 47c.
    Where is it showing NaN ? As far as I know the iPhone/Android app will show double dashes for an unknown zone temperature, while the controller itself will show an hourglass if it hasn't had a temperature report from a zone (or hot water sensor) in a long time. What does it show on the controller itself and is your hot water actually heating and coming up to the correct temperature ?
    3. This is probably linked to the above. My controller is showing the following errors:
    COMMS FAULT
    HEATING VALVE
    ACTUATOR

    Before purchasing EvoHome, I hired a RF test kit and found the sweet-spot for the relay, controller, and TRVs. When I test with the actual kit I have bought, I get a "good" signal from the Hot Water relay to the Controller (heating is working fine except point 1, so I did not test). So I know of no reason why there would be a COMMS FAULT.
    In it is nigh on impossible for me to get the relay closer to the controller without drilling holes everywhere and going underneath the floor then drilling through concrete.
    If the RF test (twice) was fine: what should I be telling my installer to look at?
    A photo of the installation that shows where the BDR91 relays are installed in relation to other nearby objects would be helpful. They should be mounted at least 300mm apart and away from other metal objects to avoid comms issues.
    Hot Water on the app and controller was showing as ON, but there was very little water,
    Not sure what you mean by "very little water" ?
    the return pipe to the hot water tank was not hot, and the relay was not showing as green. When I manually put it on, it would turn itself off after 30 seconds.
    By return pipe I assume you mean the indirect return pipe from the cylinder - this will only be hot if the system is actively reheating the water and for a few minutes afterwards but will cool down while the hot water remains hot.

    You don't say what hot water temperature the Evotouch was reporting at this time ? The light on the hot water relay should only come on if the hot water is scheduled to be on AND the hot water is below the set point minus differential. It will go off when the hot water is up to temperature.

    Do you know what the hot water temperature and differential were set to ? This is in the system installer menu in the stored hot water section.
    Last edited by DBMandrake; 10th January 2019 at 05:32 PM.

  3. #3
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    DBMandrake - thanks for your reply.

    1. I don't have an IR gun. However, to compare; on the old system, with the valve fully open and the boiler on, the radiators used to get so hot that I could not sit my back against them as it was too hot. Compare that to now, and they don't get that hot. I can sit with my back against them. Based on this, they are not heating up to the full potential of the radiator.
    All the valves on all the radiators are new as they were all changed from Danfoss to Honeywell.
    I will check those settings you mention this evening as that will give me a better understanding of what is going on.
    I do have a brand new boiler, new pipework, and a few other bits and pieces, so I am under no illusion that the heating system has undergone a bit of stress and it may take time to adjust. But I did think that with the new valves, pump, bigger boiler etc., that it would be pumping out hot water and the rooms would be roasty toasty.
    The fact that they are not getting to the desired temperature is underwhelming.

    2. It was showing as "NaN" online, but it was double dashes on the app. There is no visible controller for the hot water, so I have no idea as to what this would have been. It was 47c before it turned to "NaN" last night, and the hot water wasn't on overnight, so it would have been colder this morning. The top temp. is set to 60c.

    3.1 They are definitely not 300mm apart, more like 100mm, so I will tell the installer about this. They are above kitchen cabinets (made of wood), and attached to a brick wall. No metal/pipework nearby. So the 300mm part is a likely issue.
    3.2 Very little *hot* water it should have said. The water out the tap was warmish, but not hot enough for a shower or to do dishes.
    3.3 As the water wasn't hot, and at its last reading was less than the max of 60 the night before, I would have expected the water to come on when manually pressing the relay button to ON, and with the controller showing the hot water as ON. At minimum, I would have expected the water to stay on until it reaches its max temperature (60c). However, the relay was going off after 30 secs, whilst the water was look warm to touch - enough for an uncomfortable shower. At this time, the temp. was showing as "--"/"NaN".
    I don't know what the differential is, but the max hot water is definitely 60c.

    There are definitely some things to look at based on your response, and I do think the 300mm may be an important point. So thanks again for your input.

  4. #4
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    First I think we need a bit of background on your system, 40kw boiler - What boiler? Is it a heat only boiler or System boiler? What pump do you have, have you got two motorised valves or a 3 port valve? Do you know if the system is Open Vented or Sealed?

    If you've had all the valves replaced, I'm assuming the installer will have drained the system down. It's possible there's various airlocks in the system and that's why the radiators aren't getting hot enough. Also there could be an issue with the bypass valve, is it circulating round that (If you have one?)

    Nan on the hot water - never seen this before. Sounds like a binding issue and needs reconfiguring.

    Hot Water relay will click off after pretty quickly when manually pressed when it's still communicating with the EvoHome.

    Comms issue on Heating Valve - installer hasn't done a full reset out the box, and the Evohome is getting confused with the BDR91s. I've had this before, and on a full reset and rebinding will prevent this. As Evohome comes pre bound as a boiler relay and not a heating relay when following the Wizard it doesn't seem to reset the Controller. BDR91s should be 30cm apart on an install, however in this case I suspect that this won't be the issue in this case.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by uhhu View Post
    DBMandrake - thanks for your reply.

    1. I don't have an IR gun. However, to compare; on the old system, with the valve fully open and the boiler on, the radiators used to get so hot that I could not sit my back against them as it was too hot. Compare that to now, and they don't get that hot. I can sit with my back against them. Based on this, they are not heating up to the full potential of the radiator.
    All the valves on all the radiators are new as they were all changed from Danfoss to Honeywell.
    Honeywell Valencia's by any chance ? I changed to those a few months ago and initially had problems, so I have a good suspicion about what your main problem may be. Try setting all your HR92's to stroke 1:

    For each HR92 go into the settings menu (hold the button down until you see the menu appear) then go to option 6, press the button, change it from 0 to 1, press it again then go to exit and press it one last time. This will change the pin stroke to maximum stroke. Then trigger a re-calibration of the valve by unlatching it, lifting the HR92 off it's base, turn the black wheel fully anti-clockwise, then put the HR92 back on and latch it again to lock it in place. After about a minute you'll see CYCL as it cycles the pin through it's movement range.

    If my hunch is right this will allow the radiators to get properly hot. For full detailed background on what the issue could be and why it may be necessary see this thread:

    https://www.automatedhome.co.uk/vbul...encia-problems
    3.2 Very little *hot* water it should have said. The water out the tap was warmish, but not hot enough for a shower or to do dishes.
    3.3 As the water wasn't hot, and at its last reading was less than the max of 60 the night before, I would have expected the water to come on when manually pressing the relay button to ON, and with the controller showing the hot water as ON. At minimum, I would have expected the water to stay on until it reaches its max temperature (60c). However, the relay was going off after 30 secs, whilst the water was look warm to touch - enough for an uncomfortable shower. At this time, the temp. was showing as "--"/"NaN".
    I don't know what the differential is, but the max hot water is definitely 60c.
    If the Evotouch isn't showing a hot water temperature reading it has lost communications with the hot water sensor, under these conditions it will refuse to heat the water for safety reasons.

    Regarding a BDR91's button a short press is a "temporary override", it applies until the Evotouch sends and updated heat demand to it. This happens any time the heat demand changes, or if the heat demand is constant, once every 20 minutes.

    So the amount of time that pressing the button will override depends on the circumstances but typically it would be a lot longer than 30 seconds.

    If it's still not displaying a hot water temperature that problem needs to be addressed first.

  6. #6
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    Oh, and silly question, but if its a new system (just a new boiler or new radiators as well ?) have you checked what the flow temperature is set to compared to your old boiler ?

  7. #7
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    I've got a Regular 40cdi Worcester Bosch boiler. It is now a sealed system having been changed from being open.

    The system was drained down, and I remember there being air let out from the water tank yesterday. With this in mind I have now bled a couple of the radiators and can already see a difference.

    Having monitored it today, I think it is very much a signal issue somehow with the boiler. The NaN/No temp happened again last night after the installer had been round earlier in the day. This fixed itself this morning, and is now showing the temperature again. All I did was move the controller a few cm.
    Now that the temperature is showing, the water is coming on and off correctly and heating up the water correctly.

    The relays are still less than 30cm apart, more like 25cm currently.
    Last edited by uhhu; 11th January 2019 at 06:08 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBMandrake View Post
    Honeywell Valencia's by any chance ? I changed to those a few months ago and initially had problems, so I have a good suspicion about what your main problem may be. Try setting all your HR92's to stroke 1:

    For each HR92 go into the settings menu (hold the button down until you see the menu appear) then go to option 6, press the button, change it from 0 to 1, press it again then go to exit and press it one last time. This will change the pin stroke to maximum stroke. Then trigger a re-calibration of the valve by unlatching it, lifting the HR92 off it's base, turn the black wheel fully anti-clockwise, then put the HR92 back on and latch it again to lock it in place. After about a minute you'll see CYCL as it cycles the pin through it's movement range.

    If my hunch is right this will allow the radiators to get properly hot. For full detailed background on what the issue could be and why it may be necessary see this thread:

    https://www.automatedhome.co.uk/vbul...encia-problems

    If the Evotouch isn't showing a hot water temperature reading it has lost communications with the hot water sensor, under these conditions it will refuse to heat the water for safety reasons.

    Regarding a BDR91's button a short press is a "temporary override", it applies until the Evotouch sends and updated heat demand to it. This happens any time the heat demand changes, or if the heat demand is constant, once every 20 minutes.

    So the amount of time that pressing the button will override depends on the circumstances but typically it would be a lot longer than 30 seconds.

    If it's still not displaying a hot water temperature that problem needs to be addressed first.
    They are Valencia's. Before I change the stroke, I will wait and see what bleeding the radiators does.
    As per your last comment, I have checked how much heat is being sent to the radiators. Some of the lower ones are 100%, and the radiator is hot hot. I think this may means its not big enough to get hotter?

  9. #9
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    uhhu - sorry, I can't offer much practical advice compared to the many experts here, whose various pearls of wisdom I have used over the years. Just replying to your message to say that when you eventually DO get your system set up, it will be worth all the frustration and angst. Don't give up! I installed my first evohome system myself back in 2012, then upgraded to the on-line (via a separate Gateway), colour screen in 2014, and just this week upgraded to the latest controller so that I could incorporate some electric heating into my system. It took most of Monday to set everything up, and throughout the week I've been fixing little issues with this and that - fine tuning. Sometimes I'm tearing my hair out - Honeywell's instructions aren't the clearest. I forked out real to attend their installer course in Basildon last December, and found that extremely useful. I live in a sparsely populated part of the UK and there are no evoHome specialists for miles. My advice it to write your own notes on each and every procedure you undertake, and visit this forum often - there's lots of great help on tap. Hope you are soon able to reap the rewards of your investment!!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tractorboy View Post
    uhhu - sorry, I can't offer much practical advice compared to the many experts here, whose various pearls of wisdom I have used over the years. Just replying to your message to say that when you eventually DO get your system set up, it will be worth all the frustration and angst. Don't give up! I installed my first evohome system myself back in 2012, then upgraded to the on-line (via a separate Gateway), colour screen in 2014, and just this week upgraded to the latest controller so that I could incorporate some electric heating into my system. It took most of Monday to set everything up, and throughout the week I've been fixing little issues with this and that - fine tuning. Sometimes I'm tearing my hair out - Honeywell's instructions aren't the clearest. I forked out real to attend their installer course in Basildon last December, and found that extremely useful. I live in a sparsely populated part of the UK and there are no evoHome specialists for miles. My advice it to write your own notes on each and every procedure you undertake, and visit this forum often - there's lots of great help on tap. Hope you are soon able to reap the rewards of your investment!!
    Thanks very much for your comments. With the research I did beforehand, I do believe I have chosen the correct system and when it is fully functional, it will start to give me the convenience and savings that I have paid for.
    I can already see the benefits in regards to convenience. The heating is on in the correct rooms at the correct times, and when I go outside of the schedule it is very easy to get the heating straight to that room without putting the heating on in the rest of the house.

    I'm sure it won't be long until I am up and running and stop seeing all the fault messages.

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