Drayton Wiser Open therm

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  • njr001
    Automated Home Lurker
    • Feb 2019
    • 8

    Drayton Wiser Open therm

    Currently have a Drayton Wiser system with a very old boiler which I intend to have replaced in the near future. Thinking of having a Vaillant ecoTec plus regular boiler which is not Opentherm compatible without the addition of VR33 PCB which would invalidate the Warranty however I like the idea of being able to have a 10 year Warranty. Property is a detached 1970's property with 2 heating zones (15 radiators) and bathroom heating on the primary circuit of the hot water cylinder.

    Is Opentherm so much more efficient that I should consider a different boiler?

    I appreciate that this is not really an automated home question but you guys seem to have a real expertise.
  • someuser08
    Automated Home Jr Member
    • Feb 2019
    • 16

    #2
    Lots of boilers have 10 year warranty. Why vaillant?

    I'm actually running wiser with ecotec 831 and it works fine without opentherm, so I would not change the boiler just because I need opentherm. But as it happens the boiler is rather crap, so when I change it it will not be a vaillant.

    Comment

    • paulockenden
      Automated Home Legend
      • Apr 2015
      • 1719

      #3
      Intergas Eco RF 36 combi here. Plays really well with Evohome using Opentherm, so I presume it would with Wiser, too.

      I only have one quibble and it's exceptionally minor - it doesn't send the CH return temp via the OpenTherm bus so my monitoring can't see it.

      Fantastic boiler - I love the simplicity of Intergas, with no diverter valve etc.

      P.

      Comment

      • someuser08
        Automated Home Jr Member
        • Feb 2019
        • 16

        #4
        Yes, if if I could I would be getting Intergas Xclusive now.

        Comment

        • mtmcgavock
          Automated Home Legend
          • Mar 2017
          • 507

          #5
          I'd be sticking to Vaillant. Pretty hard to beat IMO.

          Comment

          • someuser08
            Automated Home Jr Member
            • Feb 2019
            • 16

            #6
            Originally posted by mtmcgavock View Post
            I'd be sticking to Vaillant. Pretty hard to beat IMO.
            Unless you are a heating engineer or at least someone with enough knowledge of engineering differences between different boilers and their service records, any positive personal experience doesn't mean anything statistically (you just might have been lucky if you haven't had any issues).

            But then again this is not a forum about boilers...

            Comment

            • mtmcgavock
              Automated Home Legend
              • Mar 2017
              • 507

              #7
              Originally posted by someuser08 View Post
              Unless you are a heating engineer or at least someone with enough knowledge of engineering differences between different boilers and their service records, any positive personal experience doesn't mean anything statistically (you just might have been lucky if you haven't had any issues).

              But then again this is not a forum about boilers...
              Heating Engineer, with a business with over 35 years of experience. I'd like to think my opinion is of some value.

              You're basing your recommendation of Intergas off limited knowledge and marketing materials, unless of course you are Heating Engineer?

              Comment

              • someuser08
                Automated Home Jr Member
                • Feb 2019
                • 16

                #8
                I'm not a heating engineer and don't pretend to know more than one, but this phenomenon really puzzles me: how can someone genuinely experienced in this industry can say that vaillant is comparable to indeed intergas or atag. I only assume that may be you just don't have experience of fitting them. If you really have and actually genuinely found vaillant is in some way better - please share your experience as I have not come across of such scenario before...

                Comment

                • mtmcgavock
                  Automated Home Legend
                  • Mar 2017
                  • 507

                  #9
                  Originally posted by someuser08 View Post
                  I'm not a heating engineer and don't pretend to know more than one, but this phenomenon really puzzles me: how can someone genuinely experienced in this industry can say that vaillant is comparable to indeed intergas or atag. I only assume that may be you just don't have experience of fitting them. If you really have and actually genuinely found vaillant is in some way better - please share your experience as I have not come across of such scenario before...
                  I can only base my opinion from experience, so i'm not quoting any 'official' figures etc. I've based my opinion not only on reliability, but design, product offering as an installer and the warranty support the company offers. We install and carry out a lot of servicing on a variety of different makes including Intergas and Atag so we see a variety of different boilers. Admittedly not as much on Atag due to them only really perusing the consumer market more in the UK in the last few years.

                  Based on our installs we've fitted a variety of boilers over the numerous years including Vaillant, Worcester, Baxi/Main, Biasi, Ferroli, Ideal, Remeha and Ariston. Going back around 20 years ago we would mainly fit Vaillant when their main stream model was the TurboMax (Great boiler). When the condensing boiler regulations came in 2005 admittedly Vaillant weren't ready and their offerings at that time weren't great. Tied with the fact that the merchants were supporting other brands. It was at this point we moved over to Worcester for a good 8 years, however we did install a few Vaillants too in the same period (Typically System boilers).

                  I still have customers with Turbomaxs that are 15+ year old with no issues, and customers with EcoTec ranges that are 10 years old with relatively free trouble. We even took out a Vaillant VCGB 242 that we installed in 1991 just before Christmas. 28 years out of a boiler isn't bad! None of the new ones will last that long.

                  So forward to the current day, I can nearly guarantee that all the Worcesters we fitted have had at some point a plastic water carrying part fail (Apart from the heat only boilers), with the second most common fault being fan failure. As a result of this, and the way they've gone with the design and product range we will no longer fit them. The Vaillants we fitted in the same period, we've had hardly any issues with compared to the Worcesters. Granted, you aren't comparing on the same scale.

                  2015, we started fitting Vaillants along with a 'budget' brand. In the past 4 years we've fitted around 90 Vaillant boilers, and 50 budget range ones. Out of the 90 Vaillants, i've had 4 where they've had to come out under warranty. The budget brand, i've had 19 warranty call outs.

                  Then we come down to the design of a the boilers and flue systems. In my personal opinion the Vaillants have been designed very well and operate well. Have you seen inside a new Worcester Greenstar I? It's awful. All the EcoTec range have the round burner allowing for easy maintenance, and the EcoFit range have a new burner which I believe is designed by Mercedes (Again only time will tell how well they last). The plate heat exchangers are easy to access, the expansion vessels are within the boiler so they can be changed, the PRV valves are located at the front so they can be changed. There's little things on the Atag boilers that I don't like (Rear expansion vessel, the burner, the combined PRV and Condensate, and the computer, Warranties on heat exchangers that you know they'll never honour 15 years down the line!) and Intergas (Again some models - rear expansion, and swing out expansion, computer isn't great, design of the burner, and the fact one model can be 3 boilers!) I do like the dual heat exchanger though, the Ferroli Modena range is the same.

                  Warranty call out team/engineers on Vaillant on are good also. On the 4 occasions I've had them out, it's either been same day or next day. One they even came out on new years day! Comparing to other manufactures, Ideal is pretty poor on their service, Baxi isn't great. Worcester are good and Ferroli are too. Again, I can't compare Intergas or Atag's service team as we've never installed them so as a result never had them out.

                  Then their product offerings as an installer. You can nearly get a Vaillant boiler to fit any situation. The new EcoFit range have the option for rear flue exit, cupboard fit. Then you've got the new GreenIQ range which are 94% efficient and have a 1:10 modulation range - ideal for Evohome systems. I really can't fault their offerings at the current time.

                  So that's what I base my opinion on. As I tell all my customers only time will tell which ones last the longest. Have the 10 year warranty, and have it serviced every year - You're guaranteed 10 years worth of life. At the end of the day most of the main parts are made by the same manufactures, (Fans - Embpapst, PCBs - Honeywell, Gas Valves - Sit Group Sigma or Honeywell) It's the design of the other parts, boiler and how well they're put together that's the only different in the end. And you can always just get a Friday afternoon boiler. Over the years I've had ones from different manufactures just have a variety of issues. I had a Remeha once that was that bad (That even Remeha themselves couldn't sort) I had to take it out and refit another! We installed 7 Ideal Logics in 2010, and I think 5 of them have had the Heat Exchangers go (Common problem, poor/cheap manufacturing).

                  If you've had endless problems with your Vaillant I can only suggest a few things. Has it been installed well, have you had it regularly serviced (By a competent person and not BG!), what kind of use does it get, is the system clean and inhibitors correct? If all of the answers are yes, then I can only imagine you've just had bad luck.

                  But on the whole, I wouldn't have anything else in my house.

                  Comment

                  • someuser08
                    Automated Home Jr Member
                    • Feb 2019
                    • 16

                    #10
                    First of all, thanks for taking time to write all that - very informative. Vaillant is definitely not the worst boiler out there and you have rightly shown that through the history of your installs when compared with WB/Ideal/'Budget'. And you also right about installation/installer to be more important rater than the boiler itself. But in the end its kind of what I expected - you have not installed (or even serviced) Intergas and Atag in numbers that would allow you to objectively compare them with Vaillant that you know inside out. In fact if you were my installer and I have seen where you are coming from I would have probably let you install Vaillant, but if you take 10 random installers of vaillant and compare system they install with 10 random intergas or atag ones, I'm certain it would not be in favor of the former. It maybe not even that the other two boilers are that much better, but installers who chose them do that for a reason (striving to try new things and more versatile in their approach) and could be just better quality heating engineers.

                    As for my experience with Vaillant 831: I don't know who installed it and how it was serviced within first 4 years, but since year 5 (until year 9 now) we had to change AAV, pressure sensor, filling isolation valves, diverter (twice). None of this is really major, but the cost of parts and labor to fit them (I wish I was gas registered) is getting closer to the original cost of the boiler I think. Since the first time the diverter leaked (and we had to refill the system) I had dosed the inhibitor myself. I also regularly check TF1 filter and nothing major coming out of it (although system is not perfectly clean, that I admit). Diverter leaking again within 2 years - that is just bad design or poor quality of parts.

                    On the other hand in my flat 9 years ago Atag A325ECX was installed (I was really lucky with the installer, back then I knew nothing about boilers) and after first year or two I could not get hold of the guy who installed it, so random engineers were coming for yearly service and did nothing apart form safety checks really (also most of the time they said they have never seen or heard of such a boiler). So after 9 years when we had to troubleshoot CO leak from the flue I came across original installer on linkedin and he came around, opened boiler for the first time since installation and was amazed that it looked like it had been in service for just 3 years. This is to me what quality is! Admittedly after initial lift off about 10 years ago, Atag kind of fell out favor with installers because they split into commercial and domestic operations (my boiler actually now belongs to commercial part and still being sold) and new domestic range can only be bought from them directly and even more expensive that it was previously.

                    I do not have hands on experience with Intergas, but due to price, simplicity of the design and better support after installation (more people familiar with it than Atag) that would be my first choice now, however due to some flue installation challenges i might still have to go for Atag next time I change my boiler.

                    Comment

                    • garymtitley
                      Automated Home Sr Member
                      • Feb 2019
                      • 59

                      #11
                      Makes for some very interesting reading,I too have a Vaillant 831 Ecotec plus combi.This was installed nearly ten years ago after the Alpha combi that a friend of mine recommended that I had fitted,some friend.After six years of absolute problems year on year with the Alpha,this was ripped out and replaced with the Vaillant.In nearly ten years of ownership the only two problems have been the diverter valve and pressure vessel.The boilers has been serviced every year without fail and I also have the Ady magnaclean which I think are very good.I have recently gone done the road of fitting the Honeywell evohome with Hr92 valves on all rads bar the bathroom towel rad and also have a smiths ss5 plinth heater in the kitchen.Recently I took the plunge on buying the Vaillant Vr33 to be able to use opentherm,this seems to be working very well.The only thing I will say is that my boiler is oversized for our property,one of the most common problem due to the usual thing of an installer not doing his job properly,lesson learnt and noted for the next time we are due a new boiler.I too am very interested in the Intergas boilers,they look very good and with a ten year warranty and less parts to go wrong.There are quite a few people that install these in my area,so when we are ready this might be my choice.Yes Intergas are quite new to the fore but reviews tend to be good and of course opentherm ready,another bonus.

                      Comment

                      • mtmcgavock
                        Automated Home Legend
                        • Mar 2017
                        • 507

                        #12
                        Originally posted by someuser08 View Post
                        First of all, thanks for taking time to write all that - very informative. Vaillant is definitely not the worst boiler out there and you have rightly shown that through the history of your installs when compared with WB/Ideal/'Budget'. And you also right about installation/installer to be more important rater than the boiler itself. But in the end its kind of what I expected - you have not installed (or even serviced) Intergas and Atag in numbers that would allow you to objectively compare them with Vaillant that you know inside out. In fact if you were my installer and I have seen where you are coming from I would have probably let you install Vaillant, but if you take 10 random installers of vaillant and compare system they install with 10 random intergas or atag ones, I'm certain it would not be in favor of the former. It maybe not even that the other two boilers are that much better, but installers who chose them do that for a reason (striving to try new things and more versatile in their approach) and could be just better quality heating engineers.
                        The fact is I chose not to install Atag or Intergas because I don't believe as a whole package they're a good option. I've serviced a few and I don't like them. It's not just a matter of trying new things, as you can see we've installed a variety of different manufactures over the years. It's from experience that I chose Vaillant as they're what I believe to be the best on the market at this current time. I can't be recommending products to my own customers that I personally don't believe are a good design, don't have a decent manufactures product service, and possibly might not even be around in 10 years time. Look at Rehmeha. They were a commercial brand that ventured into the domestic market, 10 years later they're gone from the domestic market. No warranty support, nothing.


                        Originally posted by someuser08 View Post
                        As for my experience with Vaillant 831: I don't know who installed it and how it was serviced within first 4 years, but since year 5 (until year 9 now) we had to change AAV, pressure sensor, filling isolation valves, diverter (twice). None of this is really major, but the cost of parts and labor to fit them (I wish I was gas registered) is getting closer to the original cost of the boiler I think. Since the first time the diverter leaked (and we had to refill the system) I had dosed the inhibitor myself. I also regularly check TF1 filter and nothing major coming out of it (although system is not perfectly clean, that I admit). Diverter leaking again within 2 years - that is just bad design or poor quality of parts.
                        All of them things really suggest system contamination. They're all parts that carry water. Just because there's inhibitor in the system doesn't mean it's good to go. AAV leak because they get dirt in them, Pressure sensors are same (Tiny particles clog up the sensor), Filling isolation valves (Contaminated system won't help, however you find on most boilers if you touch the valves after 5 years they will all start leaking!), Diverter - Again contaminated system won't help, however on the early R1 models I think they had some issues with the diverter. As you've had two in a short period i'd be tempted to look into the system more. By contaminated i'm not just talking about dirt, the original installer could have used cleaner in the system and there is traces still in there. Or theres other particles in the system which are floating about which aren't magnetic. Stick any boiler in on a bad system and you will have problems.

                        Originally posted by someuser08 View Post
                        On the other hand in my flat 9 years ago Atag A325ECX was installed (I was really lucky with the installer, back then I knew nothing about boilers) and after first year or two I could not get hold of the guy who installed it, so random engineers were coming for yearly service and did nothing apart form safety checks really (also most of the time they said they have never seen or heard of such a boiler). So after 9 years when we had to troubleshoot CO leak from the flue I came across original installer on linkedin and he came around, opened boiler for the first time since installation and was amazed that it looked like it had been in service for just 3 years. This is to me what quality is! Admittedly after initial lift off about 10 years ago, Atag kind of fell out favor with installers because they split into commercial and domestic operations (my boiler actually now belongs to commercial part and still being sold) and new domestic range can only be bought from them directly and even more expensive that it was previously.
                        This again rings alarm bells, 9 years and you've got a leaking CO from a flue? Hope you're going to tell me this had nothing to do with the boiler or their own flue system failing and that it was an error caused by someone.

                        Originally posted by someuser08 View Post
                        I do not have hands on experience with Intergas, but due to price, simplicity of the design and better support after installation (more people familiar with it than Atag) that would be my first choice now, however due to some flue installation challenges i might still have to go for Atag next time I change my boiler.
                        I agree with you on this point, if I had to pick any out the two it would be the Intergas.

                        Originally posted by garymtitley View Post
                        Makes for some very interesting reading,I too have a Vaillant 831 Ecotec plus combi.This was installed nearly ten years ago after the Alpha combi that a friend of mine recommended that I had fitted,some friend.After six years of absolute problems year on year with the Alpha,this was ripped out and replaced with the Vaillant.In nearly ten years of ownership the only two problems have been the diverter valve and pressure vessel.The boilers has been serviced every year without fail and I also have the Ady magnaclean which I think are very good.I have recently gone done the road of fitting the Honeywell evohome with Hr92 valves on all rads bar the bathroom towel rad and also have a smiths ss5 plinth heater in the kitchen.Recently I took the plunge on buying the Vaillant Vr33 to be able to use opentherm,this seems to be working very well.The only thing I will say is that my boiler is oversized for our property,one of the most common problem due to the usual thing of an installer not doing his job properly,lesson learnt and noted for the next time we are due a new boiler.I too am very interested in the Intergas boilers,they look very good and with a ten year warranty and less parts to go wrong.There are quite a few people that install these in my area,so when we are ready this might be my choice.Yes Intergas are quite new to the fore but reviews tend to be good and of course opentherm ready,another bonus.
                        Two break downs in 10 years isn't bad. The Pressure vessel you could maybe argue that has it been checked and re-pressurised on every service? Not all servicing engineers check this enough, or it could just be that it has failed. I usually find that if their pressures are maintained then they usually last.

                        Diverter valves, as I said above I think they had issues on the R1 generation. Which both of yours boilers will be. I would like to think that they've revised the design, and that it won't happen as much.

                        As I have said previously, only time will tell with any of these boilers. I'm just basing my opinion on experience of what I have experienced over the years in the industry. You have to remember too, that many of the reviews on the Atag range (maybe not as much on the Intergas) are based on shorter time periods (The boiler is either new, or only 2-3 years old). I wouldn't expect any issues in the first 5 years at all, even if it hadn't been regularly serviced. The time will tell when these boilers are 8 years+ old, then we'll be able to compare.

                        Comment

                        • garymtitley
                          Automated Home Sr Member
                          • Feb 2019
                          • 59

                          #13
                          Two break downs in 10years is exceptional,as in that it's nothing and to be perfectly honest I would have expected more issues than I've had,the Alpha I had before it was an absolute nightmare of a boiler and customer service even worse.The Vaillant has been a fantastic boiler.As you have said,the diverter was a well know problem and the newer diverter valve has I believe been made better to avoid the problem.The pressure vessel on my boiler more than likely had never been checked,so can't really blame it,again neglect by the service engineer the main problem.When I do have to replace the Vaillant,I will look at the Vaillant and Intergas in great detail before I decide.One thing I will make sure of is that the new boiler is correctly sized for our house.
                          Last edited by garymtitley; 3 March 2019, 10:26 PM.

                          Comment

                          • someuser08
                            Automated Home Jr Member
                            • Feb 2019
                            • 16

                            #14
                            Originally posted by mtmcgavock View Post
                            The fact is I chose not to install Atag or Intergas because I don't believe as a whole package they're a good option. I've serviced a few and I don't like them. It's not just a matter of trying new things, as you can see we've installed a variety of different manufactures over the years. It's from experience that I chose Vaillant as they're what I believe to be the best on the market at this current time. I can't be recommending products to my own customers that I personally don't believe are a good design, don't have a decent manufactures product service, and possibly might not even be around in 10 years time. Look at Rehmeha. They were a commercial brand that ventured into the domestic market, 10 years later they're gone from the domestic market. No warranty support, nothing.
                            OK, so two things here. First, the design, which is very subjective. Every time gas engineers discuss about what is best its inevitably ends up being a pissing context, so I take individual preferences with a grain of salt. Second, the service. You had great experience with Vaillant, you installed them well and a business model they work well for you, so i don't really see any need for you to try different boilers for the sake of it indeed. However from this position you can't really make statements about overall market. You can only compare apples with apples - you haven't got any knowledge about service from Atag and Intergas and maybe it is just as good and may be if you installed them you would had even less call out than with Vaillant. Who knows. If we had everyone in the industry like yourself - new brands would have never appeared...

                            Originally posted by mtmcgavock View Post
                            All of them things really suggest system contamination. They're all parts that carry water. Just because there's inhibitor in the system doesn't mean it's good to go. AAV leak because they get dirt in them, Pressure sensors are same (Tiny particles clog up the sensor), Filling isolation valves (Contaminated system won't help, however you find on most boilers if you touch the valves after 5 years they will all start leaking!), Diverter - Again contaminated system won't help, however on the early R1 models I think they had some issues with the diverter. As you've had two in a short period i'd be tempted to look into the system more. By contaminated i'm not just talking about dirt, the original installer could have used cleaner in the system and there is traces still in there. Or theres other particles in the system which are floating about which aren't magnetic. Stick any boiler in on a bad system and you will have problems.
                            Could be I suppose. The system been leaking and re-pressurized so many times that its unlikely anything chemical would have survived by now, but non-metal particles could be an issue. I'm planning to replace the boiler anyway during non-heating season (and I'm researching boilers well over a year now) and it will be cleaned properly. But the fact remains that Vaillant doesn't handle this situation well (and my issues are not unique, lots of them all over internet) and for some reason not for other brands (and I'm not talking just about atag/intergas). Other makes have different common issues as well, but i haven't seen anything en mass for intergas/atag.

                            Originally posted by mtmcgavock View Post
                            This again rings alarm bells, 9 years and you've got a leaking CO from a flue? Hope you're going to tell me this had nothing to do with the boiler or their own flue system failing and that it was an error caused by someone.
                            Yeah, some muppet (aka as "heating engineer" with several hundreds of positive reviews on a trade website) displaced a sealing ring somehow during a "service" and because leak was really tiny we haven't noticed it until heating season started (it took 8 hours of continuous heating to trip the alarm). These kind of experiences really dent my trust in tradesmen.

                            Originally posted by mtmcgavock View Post
                            As I have said previously, only time will tell with any of these boilers. I'm just basing my opinion on experience of what I have experienced over the years in the industry. You have to remember too, that many of the reviews on the Atag range (maybe not as much on the Intergas) are based on shorter time periods (The boiler is either new, or only 2-3 years old). I wouldn't expect any issues in the first 5 years at all, even if it hadn't been regularly serviced. The time will tell when these boilers are 8 years+ old, then we'll be able to compare.
                            Atag is actually not new. As i said i had one from the first generation (A/Q ranges) for over 9 years now and it didn't just come out back then so presumably over 10 years now. They still sell it as a commercial boiler, which proves its worth. It was also the very first boiler with a flue recovery system for DHW (secondary hex) on the UK market and many are only following suit now. The newer IC/IS range is only about 4 years old now, but this is probably a reasonable time to give it to develop. I personally would not have boiler installed that came out over 5 years as by the end of its useful life (10 years) it would be 15 years old technology which in current tech world is ages (they even could ban gas boilers by then, lol).

                            Anyway back to OP's post - why would anyone (especially with smart heating system) consider in 2019 a new boiler that doesn't have an opentherm (and really what were Vaillant thinking)?

                            Comment

                            • mtmcgavock
                              Automated Home Legend
                              • Mar 2017
                              • 507

                              #15
                              Originally posted by someuser08 View Post
                              If we had everyone in the industry like yourself - new brands would have never appeared...
                              I think that's a bit of a harsh comment. We're always open to trying new things, and i've tried different brands over the years in boilers. Most heating engineers wouldn't even know what Evohome is, try getting one to fit the system! So i'd say we're pretty up to date thanks.



                              Originally posted by someuser08 View Post
                              Other makes have different common issues as well, but i haven't seen anything en mass for intergas/atag.
                              Simple answer, it's because they haven't been installed in the same numbers.



                              Originally posted by someuser08 View Post
                              These kind of experiences really dent my trust in tradesmen.
                              Just because you've had one bad experience doesn't mean we're all the same!



                              Originally posted by someuser08 View Post
                              Atag is actually not new. As i said i had one from the first generation (A/Q ranges) for over 9 years now and it didn't just come out back then so presumably over 10 years now. They still sell it as a commercial boiler, which proves its worth. It was also the very first boiler with a flue recovery system for DHW (secondary hex) on the UK market and many are only following suit now. The newer IC/IS range is only about 4 years old now, but this is probably a reasonable time to give it to develop. I personally would not have boiler installed that came out over 5 years as by the end of its useful life (10 years) it would be 15 years old technology which in current tech world is ages (they even could ban gas boilers by then, lol).
                              Actually if you'd read my post properly you'd realise I never said Atag were new. As you've stated the IC/IS range has only been out about 4 years, this is when they really started push the domestic side of the business. With this more people installed them, public became aware of them more. My point was that anyone reviewing the IC/IS range could only have had it fitted 4 years tops. In this time period (We'll take Vaillant as an example seeming you think they're so bad!) I wouldn't expect anyone to have had any issues with their boilers. So you go a write a review of your 10 year old Vaillant (Slating it) then read a review for a 4 year old Atag. You aren't comparing Apples to Apples as you say


                              Originally posted by someuser08 View Post
                              Anyway back to OP's post - why would anyone (especially with smart heating system) consider in 2019 a new boiler that doesn't have an opentherm (and really what were Vaillant thinking)?
                              Simple, Vaillant wants you to use their own controls that basically do Opentherm using the eBus system. Actually they've been well ahead of the game for a good few years with this, when using the Vaillant Controllers and wiring centres. HW priority, adapting flow temps. They even do their own Radiator controllers, so I suspect that this is why they haven't adopted Opentherm.

                              Also referring to other manufactures there's that many issues with Opentherm across the board (Viessmann and Ideal) that I can see why someone wouldn't want the hassle of using it. And really, is it only beneficial in a house that's multi zoned?

                              Comment

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