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Thread: Mass communication loss overnight?

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  1. #1
    Automated Home Sr Member
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    Default Mass communication loss overnight?

    I came down this morning to a communication failure on the EvoHome controller. When I cleared the message, most (not all) of my zones, including hot water, are now reading '--' for the temperature.

    Took a look at the fault log and lots of communication loss at about 2:30 last night. A few have returned, most have not.

    I had breakfast, took another look and 4 more actuators had restored communication so, having to go to work, I hoped the rest would return. Looking at the app, I can see they haven't - it also seems to have overrides indicated on the zones that are back up and running so I've reset these remotely (probably!) but see that one of these hasn't 'stuck' and has gone back up to 20.

    I also note it's been calling for heat overnight. So when communication was lost, it seemed to think heat was required even though all the valves should've been shut down for the night

    Nothing weird happened during the night to the best of my knowledge. Normal day, no electricals on to speak of overnight. Anyone seen this or got any thoughts on getting it back and running with minimal disruption? Don't want to have to sit and rebind everything as nothing has changed, but not sure how to get it to pick everything up again?

    Guess I'll be working at home this afternoon to sort this mess out.

  2. #2
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    No explanations, nothing.

    Pulled the battery on the controller and put it back. Now, about 90 minutes later, all appears to have returned to normal. Although in between it did give me a variety of randomness, telling me zones had overrides (when they hadn't) that I had to manually cancel. I've a Loop Energy Monitor and I read somewhere that these also occupy the same frequency range for communication. I've unplugged it for now and will see what happens but it's been working alongside the EvoHome for the past month without any problems.

    Not very impressed at having to kick this thing up the arse with a physical battery removal to be honest. What if that happened while I was unable to get to the house (e.g. on holiday). Although I had remote communication with the controller through the app there was nothing I could do to resolve the issue - a reboot option would be nice. At least with the Loop Energy Monitor connected I had the pleasure of watching my bank account empty

  3. #3
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    I have Loop and Evohome (and ZWave) and they all operate in the same frequency range. Of these, the most likely to get disrupted is Evohome as it's not a very robust radio protocol (despite Honeywell's advertising) - most messages are just sent "fire and forget" with no acknowledgement. Having said that, the radios in these devices should be listening for other transmissions before they attempt to transmit, but there's still the chance that two things will try and begin transmission at the exact same time. The chances of a collision are therefore pretty slim, and I've certainly not observed any significant issues with having all these things chatting away at once.

  4. #4
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    Good to know, I honestly have absolutely no idea what happened yesterday. The system has behaved itself since I restarted it in the afternoon. I haven't plugged Loop back in yet. Guess I'll do that tonight and hopefully everything will remain stable.

    What gets me is that if it were a collision happening, it would happen once and the next time around everything would be ok - chances of repeat collision are surely minimal. So if I eliminate the Loop from my enquiries that leaves me with either something blocking communications or that EvoHome gave up all on its own.

    If something physical was blocking the communications, then simply resetting the unit would not have caused the blocking to stop, so I think I can rule that out.

    Leaves me with EvoHome sh*t itself. But judging from the lack of replies to this thread, this is not a common occurrence either. Well, not to the extent that I saw - I have 9 zones + HW. I lost 6 of them. 4 upstairs, 1 split up and down (2 bathrooms), the other being the room with the EvoHome controller itself. The Hot Water came and went a couple of times through the morning.

  5. #5
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    I would agree with your assessment. I have 24 HR92, half a dozen assorted wall stats, etc., and I'm not aware of any significant problem ever. Sure, the odd thing might have been missed, but most of the system works on just repeating itself every 5-10 minutes anyway (this might be Honeywell's definition of "robust"!) so I wouldn't have noticed.

  6. #6
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    UPDATE:

    Everything has been working faultlessly since ĎThe Incidentí. Iíve been checking fault logs religiously and in the last 6 weeks Iíve had one momentary lost hot water sensor but nothing else.

    This morning I arrived in at 2:30am to find the heating on. I looked at the controller and it was reporting a failure on a bedroom actuator. I check the fault log and it gave me...
    Bedroom 1: lost communication with sensor, lost communication with actuator (1 hr92 zone)
    Living Room: lost communication with sensor (3 hr92s and 1 dt92)
    The main display was showing overrides for 5 zones! (Nobody had touched anything on the system) and loss of temperature reading for 2 of them, the remaining 4 zones were all normal.

    I cleared all the overrides then went into the Living Room and saw that the DT92 was Ďoffí (no display). I popped a battery and put it back in and it re-synced.

    By this stage it was 3am and Iíd had enough. Went to bed. This morning, I see one of the cleared overrides came back on 20 mins after I cleared it and had been causing demand all night. (Thanks Honeywell, let me know where youíd like me to send your gas bill)

    Iíve looked into it further with Domoticz and it would appear that the overrides happened, for the most part, at about 11:45 on a few zones. The DT92 disappeared offline at about 1:30am. I have noticed in both Incidents the DT92 has gone off... but given the times, I am not sure if this is a cause or an effect.

    What is really puzzling me is where these overrides are coming from. They have the clock symbol in the UI so arenít coming from the phone app, they obviously arenít coming from multiple hr92s simultaneously so how are they getting set???

    Twice in 6 weeks is not good after an initial 5 months of reliable operation and Iím unsure where to turn. I donít know which bit of kit is faulty. Thereís no obstructions, no weirdly placed objects, no changes in the house, just total random failure with total inability to manage the failure.

    Got to be either the controller, or that DT92 that goes off on its own... maybe...

  7. #7
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    All batteries reporting 2/3 bars. All signal strengths are full and all pass the bash-on-hand test. The mystery continues...

    Also, doesnít the system round-robin every few minutes and send out the zone temperatures? I didnít think it waited until the next set change?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jemster View Post
    All batteries reporting 2/3 bars. All signal strengths are full and all pass the bash-on-hand test. The mystery continues...
    Hmm..
    Also, doesn’t the system round-robin every few minutes and send out the zone temperatures? I didn’t think it waited until the next set change?
    No, the controller only sends set point changes to HR92's when there is a change in set point. Additionally identical set points in a row do not send out redundant set point changes.

    So if you have 5C at 11pm and then 5C again at 2am (which I do on downstairs zones, to catch any after 11pm manual override I make if I'm staying up late) then the second one won't be sent unless a manual set point change occurred between the two to some other temperature.

    This not sending "redundant" set point changes also causes issues of it's own, if an HR92 set point override isn't registered by the controller properly it won't be cancelled. This is the case with a multi-room zone's - so if you have a multi-room zone with 5C at 11pm and 5C at 2am, and manually turn the HR92 up at midnight it will not be turned down to 5C again at 2am as the controller is not aware of the set point change and thinks there is nothing to revert! This can happen in single room zones occasionally if there are any minor loss of comms. (The workaround is to alternate "duplicate" set points in the schedule slightly, like 5.5/5.0 so that it always considers there to be a change in set point that needs to be transmitted)
    Last edited by DBMandrake; 29th April 2019 at 11:56 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBMandrake View Post
    No, the controller only sends set point changes to HR92's when there is a change in set point. Additionally identical set points in a row do not send out redundant set point changes.

    So if you have 5C at 11pm and then 5C again at 2am (which I do on downstairs zones, to catch any after 11pm manual override I make if I'm staying up late) then the second one won't be sent unless a manual set point change occurred between the two to some other temperature.

    This not sending "redundant" set point changes also causes issues of it's own, if an HR92 set point override isn't registered by the controller properly it won't be cancelled. This is the case with a multi-room zone's - so if you have a multi-room zone with 5C at 11pm and 5C at 2am, and manually turn the HR92 up at midnight it will not be turned down to 5C again at 2am as the controller is not aware of the set point change and thinks there is nothing to revert! This can happen in single room zones occasionally if there are any minor loss of comms. (The workaround is to alternate "duplicate" set points in the schedule slightly, like 5.5/5.0 so that it always considers there to be a change in set point that needs to be transmitted)
    Interesting - I was under the impression the system did a round-robin to bring everything into sync, thus any communication failure on a single update didn't matter because it would get re-sync'd on the next update. Also, if I reboot an HR92, I thought it picked up the correct set point a few minutes afterwards...

    My symptom doesn't quite match up with the Set-Point change 'window of opportunity' as that would only be a few minutes discrepancy, but I've just noticed the switch-back jumps seem to be about an hour after the Set-Point change. I hadn't noticed that before. The hour must be significant in some way to this issue.

    I'm trying to see if the first overrides align with my scheduled setup BUT really helpfully it looks like Honeywell are having problems with the app and I can't get logged in at the moment. Think they are trying to rub salt in the wound...

  10. #10
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    Ok, App is back. Breaking this down per-room... and given the granularity of the samples is no better than every 5 minutes:


    TV Room is set to go from 20.5 -> 10.0 @ 22:30. It returned to 20.5 at 23:25, and at 00:30 it went to 20.0 (not a temperature anywhere on it's schedule) and then at 1:30 stopped reporting temperature. So that's an hour between each jump.

    Living Room is set to go from 20.5 -> 10.0 @ 23:00. It returned to 20.5 at 23:45 and at 00:50 it went to 20.0 (again, not anywhere on its schedule). So 45 minutes, then an hour.

    Bedroom 2 is set to go from 20.0 -> 10.0 @ 23:00. It gave up on temperature reports at 01:25. So that was 2.5 hours.

    Bedroom 1 is set to go from 19.0 -> 10.0 @ 23:00. It went to 20.0 @ 1:40 (no 20 degrees on it's schedule). After being reset @ 2:45 it bounced back to 20 again at 3:45... so there's a 2:40 followed by an hour

    Bedroom 3 is set to go from 20.0 -> 10.0 @ 23:00. It went to 20.0 @ 23:20. After 2:45 reset it bounced back to 20.0 at 3:20. Only coincidence I can see here are both were at 20-past-the-hour.


    Don't know what this shows. From the TV room, living room and bedroom 2, I thought I was on a half-hour problem. But Beds 1 and 3 look to be separate.


    Gawd why's it so tough to debug ... and still no ideas on how come one of my DTS92s went off for both incidents.

    How are Honeywell on consumer support via email? Thinking it would be easier to explain written down with my log spreadsheets than to try to do it over the phone.

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