Evohome controller multi comms faults.

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  • DBMandrake
    Automated Home Legend
    • Sep 2014
    • 2361

    #16
    Hmm, I think you're a little confused on a few points.

    1) Comms outages don't cause the bindings between devices to be lost. Rebinding them only has a placebo effect, so you're wasting your time attempting to rebind devices if there is a comms outage. They will reconnect by themselves when the source of interference is removed or the signal improves.

    2) If you're seeing comms errors to 4 different devices at the exact same time of the day I'd be suspecting interference of some kind, or a fault with the controller itself since it is the common thing for communication with 4 different devices as all devices communicate back to the controller and do not communicate with each other.

    3) If the microswitch in the zone valve that fires the boiler is faulty, it would certainly prevent the boiler firing (and thus need fixing) however it would not "confuse the system and cause other symptoms". The honeywell system would be completely unaware of the faulty microswitch, and it would definitely not cause comms errors to be reported. Comms errors are only caused by wireless comms issues (low signal/interference) or if the device at one end is not powered. (Flat batteries etc)
    Last edited by DBMandrake; 8 November 2019, 08:31 PM.

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    • Drpepper
      Automated Home Jr Member
      • Jan 2015
      • 21

      #17
      Well confused I certainly am!

      Engineer came out today, thought it had incorrectly been configured with a Boiler Relay Valve which we don't have, so changed that.... No idea how that would have changed as no one has touched it and its been working fine until recently.

      They tested RF comms on everything, no issues... They left and since then I've had various comms faults, of course not consistent and not for everything so a comms interruption doesn't make sense either.

      Anyway, they're bringing a new controller out and going to reset the whole system up so we'll see if that solves the issue.

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      • Drpepper
        Automated Home Jr Member
        • Jan 2015
        • 21

        #18
        Time for an update....

        I took a punt and factory reset the controller, all the HR92s etc and started binding up the system from a scratch again. Much to my surprise that worked, the system needed to relearn optimasations etc but fundamentally operated as expected and I've not had a comms fault or flinch since, well until today...

        No heating again! However Evo controller is responding to changes from controller, app or Hr92 and triggering the CH BR91 accordingly, in turn the motorised switch operates..... However the boiler does not fire, same thing if I turn the BD91 on or manually operate the switch.

        HW is working fine and if that's on the heat will flow through the CH switch and rads heat up, however 95% of the time if the water goes the boiler goes off despite the CH BD91 being on and the switch being operated, 5% of the time the boiler will stay on.

        The other anomaly is the motorised switch for the CH gets hot, the HW switch never gets hot, even when the HW is on and flowing.

        I'm wondering if the Motorised switch for the CH is not operating fully even though its allowing flow, so not enough to close the contacts to call for the boiler to fire?

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        • DorrisMancer
          Automated Home Guru
          • Nov 2017
          • 129

          #19
          You probably know this, but just in case: the BDR91s control the zone valves; when either of the zone valves is fully open it operates a microswitch which switches the pump on and also applies power to the boiler; when the boiler temp is cool-enough the boiler fires.
          Does the pump always run? Have you checked for loose contacts or intermittent wires in the connections between the zone valves and the pump or boiler?
          If the LED is lit on the BDR91 the zone valve should be open (you can check by operating the manual lever) and the pump should be running. If the pump isn't running then try bridging the appropriate zone valve's microswitch with an external switch.
          Last edited by DorrisMancer; 3 December 2019, 03:09 PM.

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          • Drpepper
            Automated Home Jr Member
            • Jan 2015
            • 21

            #20
            I'm pretty sure it's an issue with the microswitch in the CH valve now, HW valve is fine.

            Interestingly a couple of evo certified installers have now both told me that as I have HR92s on all but two rads (recommended at time to ha e two without), there's no point having the CH valve at all and the BD91 should be wired directly to the boiler for demand as the HR92s control the opening and closing process at a rad level.

            I'm working round it for now by using lots of HW on long showers as then the HW fires up and the rads get hot.

            The system was out in 4 years ago, by evo certified installers so I'd have hoped it was correct as per best practice then... I know best practice can change so I'm open to having it reconfigured if needs be

            I guess the question to the experts here is, with 13 out of 15 rads with HR92s is having the CH BD91 connected to a Honeywell 2 port valve the best way to do it or just adding a valve that doesn't need to be there and potentially causing issues?

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            • paulockenden
              Automated Home Legend
              • Apr 2015
              • 1719

              #21
              Originally posted by Drpepper View Post
              Interestingly a couple of evo certified installers have now both told me that as I have HR92s on all but two rads (recommended at time to ha e two without), there's no point having the CH valve at all and the BD91 should be wired directly to the boiler for demand as the HR92s control the opening and closing process at a rad level.
              That would only be true if you had HR92s on all of your rads (and an ABV).

              Without them, if you did as you've described, you'd have those rads coming on every time your hot water tank needed a top up, even on a sweltering hot summer day.

              P.

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              • Drpepper
                Automated Home Jr Member
                • Jan 2015
                • 21

                #22
                Tbh as they are in an open plan utility room and a downstairs WC that don't need separate heating as they get it from surrounding space I'm pretty sure they are turned to close.

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                • DorrisMancer
                  Automated Home Guru
                  • Nov 2017
                  • 129

                  #23
                  My dual controller Evohome system was part of a full replacement of boiler, rads (around 26, I forget the exact number), and all pipework - I chose to keep the zone valves for simple reversion to a non-Evohome control system and so that I could more-easily see what was happening. The delta cost was trivial and the only downside seemed to be that there are a couple of additional points of failure (although 2-port valves seem to be very reliable compared to the 3-port, Y-plan, valves).
                  Why remove valves that are already fitted, especially when not all your rads are being controlled?

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                  • Drpepper
                    Automated Home Jr Member
                    • Jan 2015
                    • 21

                    #24
                    Yes, a valid point to be fair.

                    Reason one would be the CH one has failed so at least needs a new head, second would be one installer is telling me there's no point having them and another is telling me I shouldn't have them.

                    Obviously the original installer thought there was a point. These differing opions are all from evo home certified installers which doesn't help. It will probably come down to who can get round first to sort it tbh.

                    Comment

                    • DorrisMancer
                      Automated Home Guru
                      • Nov 2017
                      • 129

                      #25
                      Hmmm, the one "certified evohome installer" that I dealt with was worse than a waste of space.

                      If you want to try operating without the C/H zone valve before deciding whether to replace the head or not (<£30) then lock it open and use the BDR91 output to drive the pump and boiler directly. I haven't done this but I presume you just bridge the brown and orange z.valve wires - check the diagram in the Evohome book.

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                      • crh
                        Automated Home Jr Member
                        • Oct 2014
                        • 16

                        #26
                        Originally posted by DorrisMancer View Post
                        Hmmm, the one "certified evohome installer" that I dealt with was worse than a waste of space.

                        If you want to try operating without the C/H zone valve before deciding whether to replace the head or not (<£30) then lock it open and use the BDR91 output to drive the pump and boiler directly. I haven't done this but I presume you just bridge the brown and orange z.valve wires - check the diagram in the Evohome book.

                        This is what I did with my setup, Locked the CH valves open using the manual switch on the valves, electrically isolated them and had the BDR91 fire the pump and Boiler

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                        • Drpepper
                          Automated Home Jr Member
                          • Jan 2015
                          • 21

                          #27
                          It does seem to be an installer lottery... Anyway I have one that has a good rep lined up he's just busy as its that time of year.

                          I'll have a read of the manual tomorrow and maybe try that, or as we have the home emergency cover with the house insurance I may try and get someone out that way. They probably won't know Evo but presumably could interpret the manual or at the very least replace the head on the valve as an Interim.

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                          • Drpepper
                            Automated Home Jr Member
                            • Jan 2015
                            • 21

                            #28
                            Just made the modification above, manually opened CH switch, locked it and isolated electrics on it.

                            BD91 for the CH now firing boiler direct. I also changed boiler demand in the system config from 'none' to 'boiler relay' which I assume is correct given the mod.

                            I'm not going to have the valve taken out as if the system ever went back to none Evo that would prob again be required (granted likely with a new head).

                            So far so good anyway......

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