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Thread: Evohome firmware 02.00.19.31 Beta Trial - Exclusive for Automated Home Members

  1. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by jb80 View Post
    I am interested to know whether the "Adaptive Load Scaling" modulation feature increases wear and tear on the boiler because of the frequent stop/start behaviour. I was thinking about this whilst watching this Vaillant video about their modulating thermostat which I gather is varying the power rather than switching the boiler on/off. My thoughts are whether the reduced energy costs using "Adaptive Load Scaling" modulation is offset by the increased wear and tear on the boiler. As a home owner I'd prefer to spend a few extra quid on energy to avoid replacing/servicing the boiler sooner than planned. Thoughts?
    Adaptive load scaling does not do what you apparently think it does. It does not cause additional "stop/start" cycles in any significant way.

    TPI (Time proportional integral) has been an integral feature (heh) of Evohome from day one, if you use BDR91 relays instead of an OpenTherm bridge. The default TPI settings are 6 cycles per hour and a minimum on time of one minute.

    In this configuration your boiler's control input will be switched on and off once every 10 minutes if there is a partial heat demand. (Partial being any heat demand other than 0% or 100%) All that changes with different heat demands is when in that 10 minute cycle it switches on - a higher demand means it switches on earlier in the cycle. (And always switches off at the end of each cycle)

    Adaptive load scaling simply changes the calculation of the heat demand being sent to the relays. With it turned off the heat demand is always equal to the highest heat demand from an individual zone. With it switched on, the heat demands from some zones are "scaled down" to a lower value based (we think) on previously measured characteristics of the zone and the outside temperature. There is also some additive contribution from zones where multiple zones with high heat demand cause more boiler demand than a single zone.

    For example my bathroom zone (which heats up and overshoots quite easily) might be calling for 65% heat by itself but the final contribution to the boiler relay might only be 30% from this.

    So the vast majority of the time load scaling won't cause any additional on/off cycles of the boiler, it will only affect the timing of them slightly within the 10 minute periods.

    The one exception might be if a schedule change causes one zone to come on to 100% - previously this would force the boiler relay to 100% (therefore staying on continously) until the temperature of that zone was with 1.5 degrees of the set point where it would go back to proportional switching. With load scaling some zones may not always be able to call for 100% from the boiler therefore the boiler will switch on/off during that warm up time when it would previously be on continously.

    But this would be a very tiny fraction of the day. In short load scaling depending on your schedules will have little to no effect on the total number of times the boiler cycles on and off per day.

    I'd also make the observation that TPI controls for boilers are now ubiquitous - you won't find a non-Opentherm (or equivalent) thermostat today that doesn't use TPI, so it stands to reason that boilers have to be designed to cope with TPI controls when that's basically all that you can buy for switched control. The days of a mechanical thermostat which only switches on and off once every hour or two with a 2 degree hysteresis are long gone...
    Last edited by DBMandrake; 11th May 2020 at 09:31 AM.

  2. #332
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    Great explanation - I must admit I thought it increased the number of on/off cycles so I had misunderstood as well. Appreciate the detail you have provided and clarity.

  3. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBMandrake View Post
    .... In short load scaling depending on your schedules will have little to no effect on the total number of times the boiler cycles on and off per day.)
    Thanks for the detailed explanation and I'm glad to learn that I wasn't the only person concerned by this. My simple analysis was comparing the two line graphs that were sent along with the Resideo support email. The first red line graph without Adaptive Load Scaling (ALS) shows (5) demand ON cycle peaks, whilst the second red line graph with Adaptive Load Scaling (ALS) counts a total of (12) demand ON cycle peaks over the same time period. That's more than double the number of times the boilder is switching on.

    Reading through the literature closer it says "reduces the energy used by the heat up cycle" and judging by the line graphs it looks to normalise after 60mins once it reaches setpoint, so perhaps in the scheme of things, insignificant.
    Last edited by jb80; 11th May 2020 at 09:05 PM.

  4. #334
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    Also remember your boiler has in built protection in it's own firmware to safeguard itself. So if it reacts to a thermostat's request, it's considered OK to do so.

  5. #335
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    I'm new to the party so apologies if this has been covered already.

    1st point, is this a new feature, that you can now lock or unlock the hr92 from the controller instead of having to do it at the actual valve?

    2nd point is a bug I think, you can bypass the security PIN to get into the settings by pressing the Smart Features icon from the home screen which takes you to an option screen for Optimisation or Smart Weather but when you come out of that screen you are now in the Settings screen.

  6. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scubajoe View Post
    1st point, is this a new feature, that you can now lock or unlock the hr92 from the controller instead of having to do it at the actual valve?
    I think you might be confused - locking an HR92 (so that it says blocked when you turn the dial or press the button) is something you have always had to do from the zone configuration in the controller. There isn't a way to lock/unlock the HR92 from the HR92. It wouldn't make sense to be able to do this without some way to enter a PIN on the HR92 which the user interface doesn't have the ability to do.
    2nd point is a bug I think, you can bypass the security PIN to get into the settings by pressing the Smart Features icon from the home screen which takes you to an option screen for Optimisation or Smart Weather but when you come out of that screen you are now in the Settings screen.
    Interesting observation! I can't test this myself as I've "dismissed" the smart features icon on the home screen and don't know a way to get it back, but it would be interesting to see if anyone else can reproduce this.
    Last edited by DBMandrake; 23rd May 2020 at 08:46 AM.

  7. #337
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    Talking of features it would be better if messages that appear in the log in the Control Panel also appears in the app. I use the latter far more. Presumably that needs an app update as well as a firmware update but an app update is long long overdue. I would then get any battery warnings for example as they happen and not when I walk past the Panel and decide to check it.

  8. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by G4RHL View Post
    Talking of features it would be better if messages that appear in the log in the Control Panel also appears in the app. I use the latter far more. Presumably that needs an app update as well as a firmware update but an app update is long long overdue. I would then get any battery warnings for example as they happen and not when I walk past the Panel and decide to check it.
    Hence why I coded the alert functionality into Domoticz. Now I get an email whenever there is a new error message in the log.

  9. #339
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    I wonder if Andy the Minion has any news for us on when the next firmware release might be out ? Whether a release candidate of a public release or a further beta release ?

    Looking back in this thread we've been testing the same beta version for about 2 months now which seems a reasonable amount of time, and with summer upon us many of us will not have need for heating and therefore will not really be able to test it much further in a real world scenario - due to the recent heat wave yesterday is the first time in over a week that I've had the heating on at all, apart from the occasional use of the bathroom radiator to dry towels, and hot water heating.

    The current beta works well for me with one very annoying thorn in the side - the bug/misfeature (which we're told is already removed in later versions in internal development) where any manual override to a zone disables hot water reheating until all manual overrides are removed.

    This can lead to hot water remaining cold and not being reheated for hours simply due to some zone in the house somewhere being adjusted manually, and this scenario has been happening to me a lot lately, so understandably I'm eager to move on to a newer version, whether a later beta or perhaps a release candidate. I think I've done all the testing I can possibly do on the current version.

    Who's with me ?
    Last edited by DBMandrake; 4th June 2020 at 11:28 AM.

  10. #340
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    https://1drv.ms/v/s!Aq8TyQJugVAPg9QL...FhfDQ?e=RuEHiJ

    Not sure if I've done the video link properly but I'm trying to show the request for PIN to get to the initial Settings screen. If you go to the Smart Features then back out, you're at the Settings screen but if you try and get to the settings screen from the Home screen you are prompted for a PIN.

    Does this make sense

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