Evohome firmware 02.00.19.31 Beta Trial - Exclusive for Automated Home Members

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  • Woody
    Automated Home Jr Member
    • Feb 2015
    • 32

    Originally posted by lloyd View Post
    If I apply to join the beta now, will I get 19.31 or 19.33 (assuming the beta programme still allows new participants). I'm getting some quite severe overshoots, and from reading here, it seems that 19.33 may help matters. Are there any negatives to be aware of?


    Three weeks ago I installed a new Evohome controller and it came with version 19.31. Last Saturday I requested the beta via the Honeywell webform. I received a mail to verify my request on Monday and a few hours later the controller got updated to version 19.33. So the beta still allows participants and gets you version 19.33.

    In my case 19.33 solved a problem that in certain zones the set point (not the actual temperature) overshot by a large margin. The overshoots in temperature I noticed after installing the new controller disappeared in a couple of days. It can take some time for a new controller to adjust itself to the installation in which it is installed. On fora like this I read anything between a couple of days to multiple weeks.

    Comment

    • clarkie
      Automated Home Jr Member
      • Jan 2017
      • 11

      Why when the evohome controller is indicating the the room is at 19 °C and you increase the temperature to 19.5 almost immediately the controller says the room is 19.5 no boiler activity domocitz reports that the room is still at 19.0. Not what a user is expecting especially my wife.

      Comment

      • Mickjohn
        Automated Home Sr Member
        • Mar 2015
        • 68

        Same thing happens to me

        Comment

        • philchillbill
          Automated Home Legend
          • Jan 2017
          • 591

          It's a quirk. Bumping the setpoint by 0.5 deg is useless as the controller just magically reports a current temp rounded up to the next half degree after you make the setpoint change. Magnificent UI design by Honeywell.

          Which of the Domoticz interface methods are you using? Domoticz rounds temperatures differently to Honeywell.

          Comment

          • clarkie
            Automated Home Jr Member
            • Jan 2017
            • 11

            Originally posted by philchillbill View Post
            It's a quirk. Bumping the setpoint by 0.5 deg is useless as the controller just magically reports a current temp rounded up to the next half degree after you make the setpoint change. Magnificent UI design by Honeywell.

            Which of the Domoticz interface methods are you using? Domoticz rounds temperatures differently to Honeywell.
            I'm using the web app interface.

            Comment

            • clarkie
              Automated Home Jr Member
              • Jan 2017
              • 11

              So what is the point of having 0.5 increments, if its not going to work then it should 1.0 increments.
              I would think that getting the 0.5 to work is not a big problem. When I wrote software for Southampton University I would have been ridiculed for such a bug.

              Comment

              • DBMandrake
                Automated Home Legend
                • Sep 2014
                • 2361

                Originally posted by philchillbill View Post
                It's a quirk. Bumping the setpoint by 0.5 deg is useless as the controller just magically reports a current temp rounded up to the next half degree after you make the setpoint change. Magnificent UI design by Honeywell.
                What actually happens is the raw measured temperature is biased up to half a degree towards the setpoint and the result is then rounded (up or down) to the nearest 0.5C for final display.

                So for example if the set point is 20C and the true measured temperature is 20.1C, the measured temperature is biased down to 20C (biased towards the set point up to a maximum of 0.5C) and then rounded to the nearest 0.5C - so reports 20C.

                If you then change the set point to 20.5C it will now bias the measured temperature up to a maximum of 0.5C above the true temperature. True temperature is 20.1C and set point is 20.5C, this is then rounded and you get 20.5C.

                If you turned the set point up to 22C while the measured temperature was 20.1C it would bias it to 20.6C then round it up to 21C...

                This "fake temperature display" is independently simulated by all devices - the over the air protocol (and the web API) always reports the true temperature to two decimal places without any rounding or biasing, and the individual devices like DTS92 and HR92 apply this algorithm themselves before displaying the temperature on their screens.

                So adjusting the set point half a degree is not "useless", as it does indeed increase or decrease the ultimate room temperature by half a degree (it will take a while though) however I agree that the measured temperature display on the Evohome system is misleading in the way that it rounds the temperature towards the set point to disguise fluctuations around the set point. And one side effect of this is that the display temperature sometimes shifts half a degree as soon as you adjust the set point, and before the room temperature actually changes.

                I wish it didn't, unfortunately it is baked into the firmware in all the non-firmware upgradeable devices like HR92's (and others like DTS92 that pre-date Evohome) so they couldn't remove it from the controller and Phone app without introducing discrepancies with the readings on other devices...
                Last edited by DBMandrake; 11 November 2020, 04:52 PM.

                Comment

                • DBMandrake
                  Automated Home Legend
                  • Sep 2014
                  • 2361

                  Originally posted by clarkie View Post
                  So what is the point of having 0.5 increments, if its not going to work then it should 1.0 increments.
                  I would think that getting the 0.5 to work is not a big problem. When I wrote software for Southampton University I would have been ridiculed for such a bug.
                  The room temperature will actually change if you make a 0.5C adjustment, however with small adjustments it make take a while. (15-30 minutes)

                  The immediate change in displayed temperature is an artefact of how the system biases the displayed temperature in the direction of the setpoint as in my previous post. It's just the way the system is designed and I wouldn't get too hung up on the absolute accuracy of the displayed temperature. Just consider the displayed temperature approximate.

                  The system does use the true two decimal place measured temperature when it comes to actually controlling the output of the radiator though, so it will try to very accurately regulate the temperature, and in some rooms it can achieve as good as +/- 0.2C or so if you're using a remote sensor.

                  Comment

                  • clarkie
                    Automated Home Jr Member
                    • Jan 2017
                    • 11

                    Originally posted by DBMandrake View Post
                    The room temperature will actually change if you make a 0.5C adjustment, however with small adjustments it make take a while. (15-30 minutes)

                    The immediate change in displayed temperature is an artefact of how the system biases the displayed temperature in the direction of the setpoint as in my previous post. It's just the way the system is designed and I wouldn't get too hung up on the absolute accuracy of the displayed temperature. Just consider the displayed temperature approximate.

                    The system does use the true two decimal place measured temperature when it comes to actually controlling the output of the radiator though, so it will try to very accurately regulate the temperature, and in some rooms it can achieve as good as +/- 0.2C or so if you're using a remote sensor.
                    So you're trying to display the same reading on the display as is displayed on radiator valves.

                    I have remote temperature devices in all my rooms not really bothered with what the radiators valves are saying.

                    So for a test I turned the heating up by 1.0C and within a short while the radiator started to heat up.
                    Turning up 0.5C had no effect unless I waited approx 30 minutes.

                    Comment

                    • philchillbill
                      Automated Home Legend
                      • Jan 2017
                      • 591

                      Originally posted by DBMandrake View Post
                      What actually happens is the raw measured temperature is biased up to half a degree towards the setpoint and the result is then rounded (up or down) to the nearest 0.5C for final display.

                      So for example if the set point is 20C and the true measured temperature is 20.1C, the measured temperature is biased down to 20C (biased towards the set point up to a maximum of 0.5C) and then rounded to the nearest 0.5C - so reports 20C.

                      If you then change the set point to 20.5C it will now bias the measured temperature up to a maximum of 0.5C above the true temperature. True temperature is 20.1C and set point is 20.5C, this is then rounded and you get 20.5C.

                      If you turned the set point up to 22C while the measured temperature was 20.1C it would bias it to 20.6C then round it up to 21C...

                      This "fake temperature display" is independently simulated by all devices - the over the air protocol (and the web API) always reports the true temperature to two decimal places without any rounding or biasing, and the individual devices like DTS92 and HR92 apply this algorithm themselves before displaying the temperature on their screens.

                      So adjusting the set point half a degree is not "useless", as it does indeed increase or decrease the ultimate room temperature by half a degree (it will take a while though) however I agree that the measured temperature display on the Evohome system is misleading in the way that it rounds the temperature towards the set point to disguise fluctuations around the set point. And one side effect of this is that the display temperature sometimes shifts half a degree as soon as you adjust the set point, and before the room temperature actually changes.

                      I wish it didn't, unfortunately it is baked into the firmware in all the non-firmware upgradeable devices like HR92's (and others like DTS92 that pre-date Evohome) so they couldn't remove it from the controller and Phone app without introducing discrepancies with the readings on other devices...
                      The danger in showing a faked value for a 'current' temperature that the system will take 30 mins to reach is that a different house member may see the faked temperature and adjust back downwards again, thinking that it's already warmer than it actually is. You can get accustomed to quirky behaviour over time and work around it, but that does not mean it's good UI design.

                      Comment

                      • DBMandrake
                        Automated Home Legend
                        • Sep 2014
                        • 2361

                        Originally posted by philchillbill View Post
                        The danger in showing a faked value for a 'current' temperature that the system will take 30 mins to reach is that a different house member may see the faked temperature and adjust back downwards again, thinking that it's already warmer than it actually is. You can get accustomed to quirky behaviour over time and work around it, but that does not mean it's good UI design.
                        Oh I totally agree. I think it's a mistake but it's one they're stuck with for as long as they support all legacy Ramses compatible devices since those have the silly bias algorithm built into their non-upgradeable firmware.

                        My reply was mainly to correct the notion that making a half degree adjustment doesn't do anything - it does and I do it all the time. And the system does try its hardest to keep the true temperature very close to the set point, despite its slightly "faked" temperature display. A couple of our zones once up to temperature manage to stay within +/- 0.1C if not disturbed (doors opened/closed) as measured using the web API or an independent thermometer, which is extremely good and 20x better than what a mechanical TRV can achieve.

                        Comment

                        • bruce_miranda
                          Automated Home Legend
                          • Jul 2014
                          • 2307

                          Also if you can read the radio signals, it gives you two decimal places temperature readings, which are then further subjected to the adjustments mentioned above.

                          Comment

                          • clarkie
                            Automated Home Jr Member
                            • Jan 2017
                            • 11

                            Another test today bedroom radiator stone cold. Display indicates 17.0C domoticz indicates 17.3C.
                            Turn the heat up to 17.5C a few minutes later display indicated 17.5C system summary bedroom requesting 0% heat.
                            Waited 30 minutes radiator stone cold 0% heat request.
                            Waited 60 minutes radiator stone cold 0% heat request.

                            So can you tell me what temperature difference is required to heat the radiator.
                            Is the temperature difference compared against the setpoint and the actual temperature or the "fake" temperature?

                            Comment

                            • paulockenden
                              Automated Home Legend
                              • Apr 2015
                              • 1719

                              What were the domoticz measured room temps at the 30m and 60m points? Was it cooling or staying constant?

                              Comment

                              • clarkie
                                Automated Home Jr Member
                                • Jan 2017
                                • 11

                                Didn't change stayed at 17.3C.
                                Just a thought could you not display the fake temperature all the time.

                                Comment

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