Evohome firmware 02.00.19.31 Beta Trial - Exclusive for Automated Home Members

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  • SteveP
    Automated Home Guru
    • Dec 2012
    • 190

    Originally posted by DBMandrake View Post
    Turning the heating off immediately forces all the heat demand figures in the system summary page to 0% and turns off the boiler relay immediately, rather than the usual several minute delay where set point changes are sent to HR92's, HR92's close and send back zero heat demands.

    It seems that if the set points of zones are set more than a certain amount below the current measured temperature (I don't know how much yet, more testing needed) then the heat demand for the zone is internally forced to 0% in the controller even before the HR92 sends an updated heat demand.

    This solves a few problems:

    1) Slow "heating off" action. Now pressing heating off works immediately causing the relay to go off and stay off even before HR92's react. (Lot's of people ask why heating off is so slow or why the boiler seems to cycle on again after heating off is applied)
    2) Solves the problem where a comms issue causes one HR92 not to report back a zero heat demand causing the boiler to run on for another 20 minutes or so. (I see that occasionally)
    3) Solves the issue of people manually turning up HR92's in heating off mode (or away mode for that matter) - previously this would not appear on the controller but the boiler would come on and heat the room anyway! Not anymore. Parents will love this change...
    Ah good spot ! Yes I have been a "victim" of the heating off where I end up turning the heating temp control on the boiler to off as the heating trundles away until eventually the evohome shuts everything down which can take up to 10 mins. Glad that has been added

    Comment

    • bruce_miranda
      Automated Home Legend
      • Jul 2014
      • 2307

      This bug/feature was what made me buy an HGI80. To find out which HR80 was turned up when the Heating was Off. However, then I started using this feature quite effectively for quickly heating individual zones.

      Comment

      • Andy the Minion
        Automated Home Sr Member
        • Nov 2017
        • 86

        Originally posted by DBMandrake View Post
        Ah good. I'm not the only one who doesn't have the update yet.
        @G4RHL Sorry but I still need you to reply to the PM. Your second application wasnt from a registered email address and I need you to confirm or reapply with the correct account so we dont accidentally push this firmware to some unsuspecting sole
        Regards AtM
        Resideo employee. Comments are personal, and likely to get a hard stare from Rameses

        Comment

        • bruce_miranda
          Automated Home Legend
          • Jul 2014
          • 2307

          I am not sure I like the Cold Weather Boost feature. Especially because of the single Global boost value. So like Optimisation, it could have been really useful but isn't. Great idea poor implementation.
          I find the whole concept of a global setting for a system that is basically designed to help zone a global system very counterproductive.

          Comment

          • Andy the Minion
            Automated Home Sr Member
            • Nov 2017
            • 86

            Originally posted by DBMandrake View Post
            Turning the heating off immediately forces all the heat demand figures in the system summary page to 0% and turns off the boiler relay immediately, rather than the usual several minute delay where set point changes are sent to HR92's, HR92's close and send back zero heat demands.

            It seems that if the set points of zones are set more than a certain amount below the current measured temperature (I don't know how much yet, more testing needed) then the heat demand for the zone is internally forced to 0% in the controller even before the HR92 sends an updated heat demand.

            This solves a few problems:

            1) Slow "heating off" action. Now pressing heating off works immediately causing the relay to go off and stay off even before HR92's react. (Lot's of people ask why heating off is so slow or why the boiler seems to cycle on again after heating off is applied)
            2) Solves the problem where a comms issue causes one HR92 not to report back a zero heat demand causing the boiler to run on for another 20 minutes or so. (I see that occasionally)
            3) Solves the issue of people manually turning up HR92's in heating off mode (or away mode for that matter) - previously this would not appear on the controller but the boiler would come on and heat the room anyway! Not anymore. Parents will love this change...
            @DBMandrake Correct, good knowledge
            Resideo employee. Comments are personal, and likely to get a hard stare from Rameses

            Comment

            • paulockenden
              Automated Home Legend
              • Apr 2015
              • 1719

              Originally posted by Andy the Minion View Post
              @DBMandrake Correct, good knowledge
              I learned very quickly that Simon (@DBM) is one of those people who it's best not to argue with, because he's always right (I mean that in a nice sense, it's not a criticism) and has a shedload of knowledge and evidence to back up anything he posts!

              You guys should hire him!

              P.
              Last edited by paulockenden; 6 April 2020, 02:31 PM.

              Comment

              • bruce_miranda
                Automated Home Legend
                • Jul 2014
                • 2307

                @Andy the Minion is it possible to have a change log please. Or are the folks at Resideo enjoying us playing Treasure Hunt during the lockdown?
                Some of us have gotten used to actually using some of the "bugs". So we would appreciate being proactively told that they are fixed. Rather than only mentioning the new features that the firmware has introduced.

                Comment

                • bruce_miranda
                  Automated Home Legend
                  • Jul 2014
                  • 2307

                  And what appears on the forum is only the easy to understand stuff. You should see what Simon is able to produce in the background. Extremely impressive stuff. And to think, he still doesn't own an HGI80 and it takes the analysis to an entire new level.

                  Comment

                  • bruce_miranda
                    Automated Home Legend
                    • Jul 2014
                    • 2307

                    Consequence of the Heating Off bug being fixed is that the HR80 is now stuck on a manually adjusted Set Point, that it will never reach because the boiler won't fire. That Set Point is not updated either because the Controller has basically gone Off. What should have happened is that the HR80 Set Point should have been updated back to 5C after a while to indicate that the Controller isn't listening to any local changes.

                    Comment

                    • DBMandrake
                      Automated Home Legend
                      • Sep 2014
                      • 2361

                      Shouldn't cause an issue though because the set point will be updated when heating off is disabled.

                      Comment

                      • philchillbill
                        Automated Home Legend
                        • Jan 2017
                        • 590

                        Wow, got the firmware update within about 2 minutes of filling in the form

                        @Andy the Minion, do you have any idea if any of these new settings will be queryable/settable from the API? If Resideo is putting some effort into new firmware it would be nice if the API got a little extra love too.

                        I have warm weather shutdown (WWS) activated and it's a summer's day today so the feature is active. I notice that with my overall system set to Economy mode and the schedule for my Office requesting a setpoint of 15 deg, WWS has actually set the system-off setpoint of 5 deg for this zone, which is fine by me. However, the API is reporting "setpointMode" : "FollowSchedule" for this zone, which is not a true representation of the situation any more. Will this be addressed?
                        Last edited by philchillbill; 6 April 2020, 04:16 PM.

                        Comment

                        • DBMandrake
                          Automated Home Legend
                          • Sep 2014
                          • 2361

                          Originally posted by philchillbill View Post
                          I have warm weather shutdown (WWS) activated and it's a summer's day today so the feature is active. I notice that with my overall system set to Economy mode and the schedule for my Office requesting a setpoint of 15 deg, WWS has actually set the system-off setpoint of 5 deg for this zone, which is fine by me. However, the API is reporting "setpointMode" : "FollowSchedule" for this zone, which is not a true representation of the situation any more. Will this be addressed?
                          If I remember right window open mode being active is "reported" the same way in the API - eg the set point shows as 5C with follow schedule. Even the iPhone app doesn't know the difference between open window mode and an actual 5C set point.

                          The API could certainly be fleshed out a bit more. Heat demand *cough*.

                          Comment

                          • AlexP
                            Automated Home Jr Member
                            • Feb 2016
                            • 10

                            Originally posted by Andy the Minion View Post
                            @AlexP and @roydonaldson.
                            I have had a conversation with the Elves and this is a known bug.
                            It looks worse than it actually is, the rooms will not overheat because it is reporting 35°C the target temperature is still the real setpoint.
                            Regards
                            AtM
                            Great news thanks Andy.

                            On another note I observed what may be an issue last night - office scheduled to 16c and warm weather mode had turned it ‘off’. Went into the office and manually turned up the temp on the hr92. However the radiator never heated up. The controller was reporting a 100% demand but the boiler relay was only at about 10%, presumably from another zone.

                            So is the warm weather shutdown overruling any local override? This seems wrong to me...

                            Or possibly it is the scaling not yet calibrated properly yet, although it seems pretty close to spot on in the other zones.

                            Comment

                            • mtmcgavock
                              Automated Home Legend
                              • Mar 2017
                              • 507

                              Warm Weather has been acting a bit strange on my system today - or at least it appears so. I've been pottering around in the garage and the heating relay keeps coming on - on further investigation the majority of the system is in 'Warm Weather' and zones showing as shut down, however Living Room and Kitchen are not in WW mode - apart from these are both above their set points (1.5oc for L, 1.0oc for K) so unsure why they aren't really.

                              So i'm not sure where the heat is going from the heating relay coming On/Off (Haven't had chance to monitor yet and check demand page when it's doing it). But seems odd that it's coming on at all....

                              Comment

                              • DBMandrake
                                Automated Home Legend
                                • Sep 2014
                                • 2361

                                Originally posted by Andy the Minion View Post
                                @DBMandrake Correct, good knowledge
                                I've done a little bit of testing on this today and discovered a bug with frost protection. Well, you might call it an unintended interaction rather than a bug I suppose, but the end result is it breaks something.

                                I was curious to see how the new heat demand clamping behaved with frost protection in heating off mode. The good news is that frost protection in heating off mode does still work. The bad news is frost protection effectively doesn't work if load scaling is enabled. Whoops!

                                My test setup was to basically throw an HR92 attached to a spare valve body in the freezer with the door adjar while the heating was in heating off mode. Unfortunately it got all the way down to near zero degrees without the boiler relay ever turning on. However the heating relay did turn on intermittently towards the end of the test.

                                The following screenshots show the "Bathroom" zone down to about 2 degrees and the heat demands on the system summary page:



                                What has happened is although the zone is calling for 100% heat the load scaling has scaled the load down so much (presumably due to the very low 5C set point ?) that the heat demand going to the boiler relay is only 10% - and 10% isn't quite enough to overcome the minimum on-time requirements for the boiler relay, (11% for 6 cycles per hour and one minute on-time) so the boiler never fired at all during the 20 or so minutes that the zone was freezing and calling for heat.

                                The heating zone valve relay did cycle on intermittently (since it doesn't abide by the minimum on-time setting) but only for 10% of the time, and without the boiler relay coming on its action is useless.

                                Just to confirm it was load scaling to blame I then turned off load scaling - the boiler relay heat demand jumped to 100% and the boiler sprung into action.

                                So you might want to pass that one onto the developers to have a look at. On a TPI system which includes a boiler relay (and thus a minimum on-time setting) frost protection of a single zone can't generate enough boiler heat demand in load scaling mode to overcome the minimum on-time requirements.

                                I'm not sure what the best fix for that would be - you could reduce the scaling at low temperatures perhaps, but some people have a lot higher minimum on-time settings than my default one minute setting so increasing the demand somewhat would just move the problem up the scale a bit to those with higher minimum on-time settings...
                                Last edited by DBMandrake; 6 April 2020, 05:51 PM.

                                Comment

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