Evohome firmware 02.00.19.31 Beta Trial - Exclusive for Automated Home Members

[Mid112]

Thanks this would explain a bit.

But i think parameter 0 does not work on xclusive at all as it never skips a cycle but responds with min flow.

Does this work on older intergas boilers?

[ssb_tv]

ssb_tv
The HCE80 only reports the almagamated heat demand on its first zone so the Evo system overview has to show it there but it will be responding correctly Evo gives the heat the HCE asks for and the HCE gives it to the zone that requested it
Regards AtM

This is good to know, I put it back to UFH on the evotouch last week and it seems to be behaving as normal now without the bug. I am wondering if it had something to do with the warm weather saver function, since it is cooler outside now. With the HCC80 we have usually found that the zone is the one calling for demand on the summary screen, not the 1st zone, although as you said it does seem to amalgamate it, e.g. the boiler won't have any demand until there is a big enough difference between actual temp. and the set point, or multiple zones call for heat.
Thanks,
Saaj
Evohome UFH demand.jpg

[kevinsmart]

Hi Saaj,
Do you find that HCC80s in combination with OpenTherm works well?

The reason I ask is that I am moving house next month and expect to be installing this setup, probably 4 HCC80s, 1 per manifold.

Thanks!

[ssb_tv]

Apart from the minor issue with the Beta, the HCC80 works well in conjunction with OpenTherm. I’ve been using it in this configuration for nearly two years now. If the UFH is only calling for heat it will fire the boiler nearer 40-50C mark which is good.

[AlexM2020]

I seem to have ticked a box somewhere or somehow ended up with this beta firmware (I probably selected to beta test as an option at sign-up time) but the "no hot water if any zone is overridden" bug is a show stopper for me. Is there a way to revert to the last public release?

[ally153]

I seem to have ticked a box somewhere or somehow ended up with this beta firmware (I probably selected to beta test as an option at sign-up time) but the "no hot water if any zone is overridden" bug is a show stopper for me. Is there a way to revert to the last public release?

Alex, can you confirm what version of the firmware you are running? This behaviour was corrected for the latest beta which is what will be the target of the next public release, so I suspect you have 2.0.19.31. It is possible to manually push older versions of firmware to devices, but generally it's not advisable as the new software has new parameters, if we 'downgraded' you, you would lose your configuration and have to re-configure your system due to the differences.

If you send me a private message with your MAC address for the unit, I can push the latest firmware to the device if required.

[AlexM2020]

Alex, can you confirm what version of the firmware you are running? This behaviour was corrected for the latest beta which is what will be the target of the next public release, so I suspect you have 2.0.19.31. It is possible to manually push older versions of firmware to devices, but generally it's not advisable as the new software has new parameters, if we 'downgraded' you, you would lose your configuration and have to re-configure your system due to the differences.

If you send me a private message with your MAC address for the unit, I can push the latest firmware to the device if required.

Hello Ally, yes, version 2.0.19.31. I'll PM a message in a minute with the MAC address.
Thank you.

[DBMandrake]

Unfortunately how the code is arranged, there is a system wide flag for Eco and a variable for the setpoint of each zone. This means the code has no knowledge of the setpoint before Eco was applied or what it should be after Eco is cancelled or times out. I'll have a look into this but any fix would be time/resource dependent.

I'd like to relate an observation I made yesterday about the inconsistency in the way manual overrides are applied.

If you set a manual override when cold weather boost is active and is boosting the temperature of a zone the manual override goes to the exact temperature you ask for without the cold weather boost offset added on top, and when you cancel the override it goes back to the previous cold weather boost offset temperature - just like you'd expect and want.

But Eco/Boost doesn't behave this way and as discussed the Eco/Boost offset is added on top of any manual override. This surely should be considered inconsistent UI design?

Please bear in mind that load scaling is a learning algorithm. It will learn how to control your environment correctly overtime. If a room sensor is manipulated in a way that doesn't match how the environment reacts, the results will look strange. We also implemented failsafe measures which looks for abnormalities in the heat up ramp based on historical learning. If we detect a room is taking abnormally long to heat up the failsafe will kick in and ask for more from the boiler.

I gave "Normal" load scaling mode another try on 19.33 over about 3 weeks which has included both very cold and mild weather, (a good test) but in the end I've had to go back to "Partial" mode again.

It worked OK with very cold outdoor temperatures in the 0-10 range but the load was scaled back excessively at warmer temperatures in the 10-15 range causing zones to persistently linger below their set points by about 0.5 to 1.0 degrees, unable to generate enough heat demand to reach their targets, or indeed sometimes even fire the boiler, even after plenty of time (a couple of weeks) to adapt.

"Normal" mode seems to over compensate for outdoor temperature changes - at least for my house, which is a surprise as it is not particularly well insulated which would seem to be what "Normal" mode targets. However the system seems to work quite well in "Partial" mode.

[ally153]

This is good to know, I put it back to UFH on the evotouch last week and it seems to be behaving as normal now without the bug. I am wondering if it had something to do with the warm weather saver function, since it is cooler outside now. With the HCC80 we have usually found that the zone is the one calling for demand on the summary screen, not the 1st zone, although as you said it does seem to amalgamate it, e.g. the boiler won't have any demand until there is a big enough difference between actual temp. and the set point, or multiple zones call for heat.
Thanks,
Saaj
Evohome UFH demand.jpg

Just catching up on posts! Like Andy has suggested, the HCE80 only sends the maximum demand to Evo, as opposed to the individual zone demands. This is usually the 1st Evo underfloor zone as it's generally the first underfloor zone bound with Evo, but could appear at a different position in the summary screen if zones have been re-ordered or deleted and then added again later. We have some ideas on how to get the summary screen to show a representative demand for the other underfloor zones for a later release, which will make this summary screen less confusing.

I'd like to relate an observation I made yesterday about the inconsistency in the way manual overrides are applied.

If you set a manual override when cold weather boost is active and is boosting the temperature of a zone the manual override goes to the exact temperature you ask for without the cold weather boost offset added on top, and when you cancel the override it goes back to the previous cold weather boost offset temperature - just like you'd expect and want.

But Eco/Boost doesn't behave this way and as discussed the Eco/Boost offset is added on top of any manual override. This surely should be considered inconsistent UI design?

It is, yes, during development we did find a bug with Eco and manual overrides. Due to time constraints we didn't have time to address this behaviour. I'm hoping that we'll have an oppertunity to re-visit this for a later release, but again it depends on timescale.

I gave "Normal" load scaling mode another try on 19.33 over about 3 weeks which has included both very cold and mild weather, (a good test) but in the end I've had to go back to "Partial" mode again.

It worked OK with very cold outdoor temperatures in the 0-10 range but the load was scaled back excessively at warmer temperatures in the 10-15 range causing zones to persistently linger below their set points by about 0.5 to 1.0 degrees, unable to generate enough heat demand to reach their targets, or indeed sometimes even fire the boiler, even after plenty of time (a couple of weeks) to adapt.

"Normal" mode seems to over compensate for outdoor temperature changes - at least for my house, which is a surprise as it is not particularly well insulated which would seem to be what "Normal" mode targets. However the system seems to work quite well in "Partial" mode.

Thanks for the feedback and giving NORMAL another go - sounds like there are still improvements to be made for this function. It's possible that during the warmer weather there wasn't enough of a temperature difference to trigger the adaption, but it looks like we could do with taking another look under the hood and see what fine tuning we can do at higher outside temperatures.

[SteveP]

Just catching up on posts! Like Andy has suggested, the HCE80 only sends the maximum demand to Evo, as opposed to the individual zone demands. This is usually the 1st Evo underfloor zone as it's generally the first underfloor zone bound with Evo, but could appear at a different position in the summary screen if zones have been re-ordered or deleted and then added again later. We have some ideas on how to get the summary screen to show a representative demand for the other underfloor zones for a later release, which will make this summary screen less confusing.



It is, yes, during development we did find a bug with Eco and manual overrides. Due to time constraints we didn't have time to address this behaviour. I'm hoping that we'll have an oppertunity to re-visit this for a later release, but again it depends on timescale.



Thanks for the feedback and giving NORMAL another go - sounds like there are still improvements to be made for this function. It's possible that during the warmer weather there wasn't enough of a temperature difference to trigger the adaption, but it looks like we could do with taking another look under the hood and see what fine tuning we can do at higher outside temperatures.

I wanted to add some feedback a couple of of days ago regarding load scaling but have been rather tied up. Having run with Normal mode (on the basis of previous posts regarding what is deemed "well insulated" as my house is timber frame and has heat recovery ventilation ) and I also set the boiler to 70c (as recommended by DBMandrake) and I have found the house much more "stable" temperature wise regardless of the outside temp. Normally I have to keep adjusting my boiler temp dependant upon outside temperature (as not opentherm) but this is the first year I haven't and can just leave it up high and am not getting the usual overshoots or under temp issues so getting a "thumbs up" from me.
Would still be nice to have some feedback on the outside temperature "black box" process ?