EvoHome Beta 02.00.19.31 - HW Priority Setting

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Andy the Minion
    Automated Home Sr Member
    • Nov 2017
    • 86

    #46
    Originally posted by CT1 View Post
    The main reason I have a motorised valve for the CH, is that EvoHome replaced an existing system and the installer used what was there. To change now would mean paying him to come back and modify the system for what looks like no reason except to avoid the HW priority.

    Andy, I am happy to provide my MAC address, but do not think it will help you much as I operate my EvoHome in a semi manual manner to get the best out of my other Solar powered options and because my household does not operate to a regular pattern. The HW control is entirely manual at present and used to give things a boost before or after showers or to ensure temperature is raised to 60 when necessary to provide sterilisation. Unfortunately it is not possible to integrate/automate everything.
    @CTI I would still be interested to see a poor DHW recovery in action. Can you still PM me your MAC please
    AtM
    Resideo employee. Comments are personal, and likely to get a hard stare from Rameses

    Comment

    • DBMandrake
      Automated Home Legend
      • Sep 2014
      • 2361

      #47
      Originally posted by mtmcgavock View Post
      Had a LOT of issues with Honeywell zone valves recently, to the point now going forward on new systems i'll be using Drayton.

      I'd just change the motor if you can, easy enough job to do and cheaper than buying a replacement top. If you do go down the replacement top road it's cheaper buying the complete valve and having a spare back than just buying a top.

      But goes to show Zone valves still have a place in some systems.
      The replacement valve arrived yesterday so I got the head swapped over and wired back in. Two things I noticed since then, both expected:

      1) No more rooms going over temperature during hot water reheat. Yay!
      2) When TRV's demand full heat the radiators are getting a LOT hotter than they were when I had the CH valve manually latched on the fill position as a workaround.

      I've mentioned this in other threads before but the fill position on two port valves only opens the valve around 1/4 to 1/2 way and there is a lot of flow restriction vs being fully opened by the motor. Enough flow to fill and bleed a system, but not enough to get full flow and full performance.

      The difference in panel temps on some of my larger radiators between a manually latched and powered open CH valve is really obvious!
      Last edited by DBMandrake; 24 April 2020, 11:02 PM.

      Comment

      • mtmcgavock
        Automated Home Legend
        • Mar 2017
        • 507

        #48
        Originally posted by DBMandrake View Post
        The replacement valve arrived yesterday so I got the head swapped over and wired back in. Two things I noticed since then, both expected:

        1) No more rooms going over temperature during hot water reheat. Yay!
        2) When TRV's demand full heat the radiators are getting a LOT hotter than they were when I had the CH valve manually latched on the fill position as a workaround.

        I've mentioned this in other threads before but the fill position on two port valves only opens the valve around 1/4 to 1/2 way and there is a lot of flow restriction vs being fully opened by the motor. Enough flow to fill and bleed a system, but not enough to get full flow and full performance.

        The difference in panel temps on some of my larger radiators between a manually latched and powered open CH valve is really obvious!
        Be interesting to see how long your new head lasts for. As I said in my earlier post been having a lot of issues with the Honeywell valves failing of recent. One where it got stuck open on an Unvented cylinder.

        Yes it's amazing how much difference it makes. Suppose you can see this on the valve on the backplate before you fit them, just goes to show that latching the valve open isn't ideal.

        Have you found a motor to replace the one in the old valve yet?

        Comment

        • CT1
          Automated Home Guru
          • Apr 2016
          • 189

          #49
          Originally posted by Andy the Minion View Post
          @CTI I would still be interested to see a poor DHW recovery in action. Can you still PM me your MAC please
          AtM
          Sorry Andy, missed your post.

          I do not think it would be worth looking at my history for this. For most of the year, a large proportion of my water heating comes from Solar. My requirement for HW also varies dependant on number of occupants/visitors etc. For this reason I tend to use a lot of manual boosts rather than timed settings. In any case it is not just the time taken to heat a full tank of hot water.

          The worst time is when it is very cold and the solar panels are covered with snow, thankfully not very often, but I would not want my relatively small radiators to be cold while the hot water is heated.

          At other times the water is warm but needs a boost before taking a showers or baths. We do not follow any set pattern for this so usually turn the heating on in the bathroom and give the hot water a boost just before and after use. If the heating and HW had to operate sequentially this would require a longer time and more planning. If the whole family were staying over, bath/shower time could result in a long period without heating.

          If we had been away from home for a few days in the winter, we would have a cold house and no hot water. With HW priority it would be an unacceptably time before the heating kicked in. Unfortunately for your analysis this has not happen recently.

          Comment

          • bruce_miranda
            Automated Home Legend
            • Jul 2014
            • 2307

            #50
            Speaking of Boost, has anyone else noticed that in the Beta you have to confirm the Boost before the HW BDR91 clicks in. In the previous firmware, if I remember right, it wouldn't wait for you to click the Green Tick. So Boost now is a 2 click feature.

            Comment

            • jvallis
              Automated Home Jr Member
              • Feb 2018
              • 29

              #51
              So I have an evohome for my Mum's system, and she has set her times to the exact points when she wants heat and hot water. She's on full S-Plan and her cylinder is quite slow, even being a fairly new Telford 300L unvented.

              Given that there is often overlap with a lot of schedules with regards to Hot Water and Heating, would it be an idea to introduce better logic around the hot water so that it actually heats water a lot earlier than the schedule, so as to change to heating mode in the correct time, as I think it'd be better to actually monitor how quickly a cylinder loses temp and when hot water 'events' happen, as most people tend to take showers and baths at pretty predictable times (give or take an hour or so).

              Also, given how CS92 can get a bit unreliable, and given how cheap temperature probes are, I think it'd be a great idea to introduce a new version that:

              1. Is water proof and can be used as an outdoor sensor if need be
              2. Has multiple temperature probe terminals, as a lot of cylinders have more than one pocket, and thus can guess where the stratification layer 'moves' within the cylinder
              3. Can be made a little more reliable.

              This then gives evohome more capability to leverage some better smartness as that of a room zone but at the higher temps of a cylinder.

              Comment

              • Niktheguru
                Automated Home Lurker
                • May 2020
                • 4

                #52
                Hey guys,

                Hope this is the right thread. So I’ve had an evohome for 3 years and loved it. However this beta has really ruined it.
                My system has 12 HR92s and 1 towel radiator doesn’t have one and acts as an apparent bypass (as in it always comes on when the hot water is on)

                Now with this new update if any of the hr92s have a manual override to heat a radiator then the hot water doesn’t heat even if the indicator on the main panel or app says it is heating, the water doesn’t heat and stays at 22 degrees. It only turns on if I turn the heating off or close all overrides.

                Is this a bug, or a new feature? Is it going to be rectified? It really ruins the whole system for me. What’s the point in being able to adapt the individual temps if it doesn’t allow you to have hot water!

                Hope someone can help

                Comment

                • G4RHL
                  Automated Home Legend
                  • Jan 2015
                  • 1580

                  #53
                  I don’t have the beta version, from what I have read I think that may be a blessing, but what you complain about has been much reported on in these pages by many. My understanding is that it’s a fault in the beta version, rectified in the released version whenever that happens. It is a fundamental flaw in the software. Very fundamental as it prevents proper operation. One would normally expect a manufacturer asking people to test its gear to immediately rectify a big issue like this and rush out an updated beta version. Why that has not happened remains a mystery.

                  Comment

                  • DBMandrake
                    Automated Home Legend
                    • Sep 2014
                    • 2361

                    #54
                    Yes a much discussed "known bug", check out the beta firmware thread for more discussion about it.

                    On the plus side Andy the Minion has already said quite some time ago that the problem is known and already rectified in later internal builds so we can be sure that when we receive another update (either a new beta version or final release - who knows) the problem will be gone, so it's just a matter of being patient until another release comes out, unfortunately.

                    On the minus side, it's a really, really annoying problem and is the only change in the beta firmware that is causing me significant inconvenience, and to be honest I'm chomping at the bit to get an update, even another beta to address it.

                    BTW, it's not actually any zone that has a manual override that prevents hot water heating - it's any zone that has a manual override AND has a heat demand. If you use a manual override to reduce a temperature, hot water heating is not delayed, also if you apply an override that is a modest increase once the zone heats up and the heat demand falls (it has to fall to a very low near zero heat demand) then hot water reheat will commence. However if you set a large set point increase that can't be attained heat demand will never drop to a low enough value to allow hot water reheat to commence, so hot water will never reheat, as you describe.

                    If you read between the lines this is not actually a bug in my opinion, but something that was originally intended as a feature but was later deemed to be a bad idea and removed again. (But unfortunately not until after the beta version we have been provided)
                    Last edited by DBMandrake; 10 June 2020, 09:28 AM.

                    Comment

                    • Niktheguru
                      Automated Home Lurker
                      • May 2020
                      • 4

                      #55
                      Originally posted by DBMandrake View Post
                      Yes a much discussed "known bug", check out the beta firmware thread for more discussion about it.

                      On the plus side Andy the Minion has already said quite some time ago that the problem is known and already rectified in later internal builds so we can be sure that when we receive another update (either a new beta version or final release - who knows) the problem will be gone, so it's just a matter of being patient until another release comes out, unfortunately.

                      On the minus side, it's a really, really annoying problem and is the only change in the beta firmware that is causing me significant inconvenience, and to be honest I'm chomping at the bit to get an update, even another beta to address it.

                      BTW, it's not actually any zone that has a manual override that prevents hot water heating - it's any zone that has a manual override AND has a heat demand. If you use a manual override to reduce a temperature, hot water heating is not delayed, also if you apply an override that is a modest increase once the zone heats up and the heat demand falls (it has to fall to a very low near zero heat demand) then hot water reheat will commence. However if you set a large set point increase that can't be attained heat demand will never drop to a low enough value to allow hot water reheat to commence, so hot water will never reheat, as you describe.

                      If you read between the lines this is not actually a bug in my opinion, but something that was originally intended as a feature but was later deemed to be a bad idea and removed again. (But unfortunately not until after the beta version we have been provided)
                      Thanks. Yes, thats exactly what I meant. I did see this on the main beta thread too, but wanted to make sure it was the same issue I was having. First time I was away at work, and wife called me in a panic saying water is not heating up. from the app it was saying it was on but the temp just wasn't shifting. Took ages to work out what was happening! I wasn't clear from the main thread whether this was going to be fixed or whether this was a "new way it was to work" as in my case it renders the whole thing pointless if you cant get hot water when you need it. (without shutting everything else down!)

                      I was so flabbergasted by it, i went out of the beta (through the app), which seemed to reverse the software on my main evohome (the screen went back to the old one) and everything went back to normal, but then reupdated itself a few weeks later!

                      Am hoping for some sort of update to fix it for us.....lucky enough now its the summer its less of an issue as the radiators are usually off or the actual room temp is above my setpoint.

                      Thanks for your replies guys.

                      Comment

                      • bruce_miranda
                        Automated Home Legend
                        • Jul 2014
                        • 2307

                        #56
                        The one thing I am definitely missing is the ability to just spin the HR knob and for the heating in that zone to magically come on, even though the Heating at the control panel has been turned OFF.

                        Comment

                        • DBMandrake
                          Automated Home Legend
                          • Sep 2014
                          • 2361

                          #57
                          Originally posted by Niktheguru View Post
                          I was so flabbergasted by it, i went out of the beta (through the app), which seemed to reverse the software on my main evohome (the screen went back to the old one) and everything went back to normal, but then reupdated itself a few weeks later!
                          How did you use the App to revert your firmware ? I haven't seen or heard any way to do that...

                          Comment

                          • DBMandrake
                            Automated Home Legend
                            • Sep 2014
                            • 2361

                            #58
                            Originally posted by bruce_miranda View Post
                            The one thing I am definitely missing is the ability to just spin the HR knob and for the heating in that zone to magically come on, even though the Heating at the control panel has been turned OFF.
                            To be fair, the old way where turning up an HR92 manually in heating off mode still worked (but didn't show anything on the controller) was always a bug or oversight.

                            A lot of people were unhappy with Heating Off not truly meaning heating off, (lots of complaints about it on the forum when people discovered the hard way it worked like this) and I think the way they've implemented it now (within the constraints of the fixed HR92 firmware and rf comms protocols) is actually pretty good. (Apart from it not periodically re-sending the heating off set points to HR92's which I think it should do)

                            Unfortunately those that relied on the old hack will just have to find a different way to do it - for me I'm using the Custom action for my summer "heating off but I might want to turn one radiator on manually occasionally" situations. One advantage of this is you can see the override on the controller and also make the override from the controller or phone which wasn't possible with the old heating off hack.
                            Last edited by DBMandrake; 10 June 2020, 07:39 PM.

                            Comment

                            • roydonaldson
                              Automated Home Guru
                              • Jan 2013
                              • 205

                              #59
                              I actually agree with the new behavior on this now being the right one. If I centrally set my heating to be Off, it should stay Off. If it is On, but set really low, then a zone should be able to override the temperature and it be displayed centrally.

                              Roy.

                              Comment

                              • bruce_miranda
                                Automated Home Legend
                                • Jul 2014
                                • 2307

                                #60
                                I too agree. I just miss the bug :-) Infact I got into RF comms monitoring because this bug drove me mad. Why was my boiler firing when Heating was set to OFF.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X