Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 32

Thread: An Alternative Perspective

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Automated Home Sr Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    61

    Default An Alternative Perspective

    I often read the forum and, having a technical background, I find many of the posts interesting and informative. However I have no need or desire to implement most of the ideas because they do not fit with my requirements.

    I have a well insulated A rated home with an A rated boiler, solar PV, solar thermal HW and a diverter to use excess solar to heat the HW. I also have 2 air con/air source heat pump units. We are at home most days and have no set schedule for when any room will be in use and times and durations of periods away from home are quite random. To get the maximum benefit from this I often need to operate things manually. I have not found any advantage from optimisation and would not anticipate any benefit from the Hot and Cold weather settings and the HW priority will be seriously detrimental for my system. My well placed and accurate external temperature sensor often shows significant variation from the temperatures indicated by EvoHome. Hence I have not asked to be part of the Beta test programme.

    What I do find essential is having individual control of each zone. Before EvoHome I used TRVs and a room thermostat but could not get enough control of each room. EvoHome solved this fundermental problem.

    The improvements that would benefit me are.

    1. Change eco mode to offset mode and allow offsets of say +/- 5 degrees.

    2. Allow individual zones to be switched Off individually (ie set to 5 degrees)

    2. Please, please DO NOT make HW priority mandatory.

    3. Improve battery management for the controller.

    And on the hardware

    4. Improve the reliability of the battery contacts for all components so that they do not need to be “bent” to achieve reliable contact. None of my other battery operated devices require this.

  2. #2
    Automated Home Legend
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    2,094

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CT1 View Post
    The improvements that would benefit me are.

    1. Change eco mode to offset mode and allow offsets of say +/- 5 degrees.

    2. Allow individual zones to be switched Off individually (ie set to 5 degrees)

    2. Please, please DO NOT make HW priority mandatory.

    3. Improve battery management for the controller.

    And on the hardware

    4. Improve the reliability of the battery contacts for all components so that they do not need to be “bent” to achieve reliable contact. None of my other battery operated devices require this.
    I agree wholeheartedly with all your points except point 2 - you can already do this by setting the zone to 5 degrees, either until a specific time or permanently.

    So I'm not sure what you're asking for in point 2 other than reducing the number of taps it takes to turn a zone down to 5 degrees ? (Don't get me started on that weakness...)

  3. #3
    Automated Home Sr Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    61

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DBMandrake View Post
    I agree wholeheartedly with all your points except point 2 - you can already do this by setting the zone to 5 degrees, either until a specific time or permanently.

    So I'm not sure what you're asking for in point 2 other than reducing the number of taps it takes to turn a zone down to 5 degrees ? (Don't get me started on that weakness...)

    I have assumed that “make permanent “ would permanently override the schedule for that day of the week in future not just the current day?

    Also I agree that the multiple taps to change temperature are a pain, especially as the screen is not very responsive.

  4. #4
    Automated Home Legend
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    2,094

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CT1 View Post
    I have assumed that “make permanent “ would permanently override the schedule for that day of the week in future not just the current day?
    A permanent override is just that - permanent. It applies continously 24/7, and is restored after using (most!) actions like heating off. So if you set a zone permanently to 10C it will drop to 5C with heating off mode but revert to continous 10C when you come out of heating off. It won't automatically revert to the programmed schedule.

  5. #5
    Automated Home Sr Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    88

    Default

    Superb set of enhancements that would benefit us all - being able to turn a zone off with one click would be really good.

  6. #6
    Automated Home Legend
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    1,223

    Default

    I am from the camp that actually does not think the battery contacts are to blame. I actually think we feel they need fixing and in doing so reboot devices and hence they appear to work again. I actually believe the weakness is in the radio protocol.

  7. #7
    Automated Home Lurker
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Posts
    8

    Default

    I've only had my system installed for a couple of days, so I'm still working everything out. However I do have a few observations as a new user.

    Agree with your point 1 and 2.
    On point 2, I think this would be useful for things like spare bedrooms or other unused rooms, which you want to be usually off but at a quick touch allow it to follow a 'normal' schedule if for example it is occupied by guests etc.

    To expand on that, the whole issue of zoning I find interesting. I'm not sure I ever found a definitive definition of what a 'zone' actually is in the context of the Evohome system, but made the assumption that it was a single or group of heating areas that can have their time schedule and temperature set, independent of other 'zones' (I think I was correct).

    When I first mapped out my rooms and number of radiators it seemed to me that 12 zones was quite restrictive, on the basis that I'd like every room to be it's own zone. I have more than 12 rooms and I'm sure a lot of larger houses will too.
    So I presume the idea of this is to group similarly used rooms together, but without making it so complex that there are too many schedules to keep programmed and up to date.

    Some of these mappings are logical such as downstairs hallway and upstairs landing can be zoned together, and rooms connected via an opening such as kitchen/dining room in my case, which in effect is one large room.
    However once you do this and set up the zoning, it seems you lose any visibility of the rooms within a zone. For example, in 'System Summary' all I see is RADIATOR VALVE. It doesn't tell me that 'Living room' actually has 2 radiator valves in the same room, or that 'Kitchen Dining' is actually 2 rooms with a radiator valve in each.
    I would have liked to see the setup process involving adding each room by name as step one, then grouping these into zones, with the ability to move them between zones (e.g. moving a Guest Bedroom from an 'unused' zone to an 'active' zone)
    I'm interested in how everyone else manages the zoning process?

    Other than that so far so good. A couple of minor things, such as the controller doesn't sit very tightly or securely on the wall-mount kit - it wobbles a bit when you touch the screen, and it can be lifted straight off. I would have liked to see it lock into place, as I have visions of it getting knocked upwards then falling straight onto the floor off the mount.
    Also I have the HR92 set for 'room temperature' display which to me seems preferable to set temperature. However as the bottom part of the LCD is unused in idle mode, it would have been nice to have the 'other' temperature displayed at the bottom too. Don't know whether these devices are capable of receiving OTA firmware updates from the controller?

  8. #8
    Automated Home Legend
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    2,094

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by benwillcox View Post
    On point 2, I think this would be useful for things like spare bedrooms or other unused rooms, which you want to be usually off but at a quick touch allow it to follow a 'normal' schedule if for example it is occupied by guests etc.
    Just set a continous override to something like 10C in the guest room zone. It will be overridden by the heating off action but will go back to the continous override temperature when the system is turned back on.
    To expand on that, the whole issue of zoning I find interesting. I'm not sure I ever found a definitive definition of what a 'zone' actually is in the context of the Evohome system, but made the assumption that it was a single or group of heating areas that can have their time schedule and temperature set, independent of other 'zones' (I think I was correct).
    Yes, a zone is something that can be uniquely scheduled and controlled. Usually a single room, but there is a special "multi-room zone" zone type that can be configured which applies the same schedule to multiple rooms.
    When I first mapped out my rooms and number of radiators it seemed to me that 12 zones was quite restrictive, on the basis that I'd like every room to be it's own zone. I have more than 12 rooms and I'm sure a lot of larger houses will too.
    So I presume the idea of this is to group similarly used rooms together, but without making it so complex that there are too many schedules to keep programmed and up to date.

    Some of these mappings are logical such as downstairs hallway and upstairs landing can be zoned together, and rooms connected via an opening such as kitchen/dining room in my case, which in effect is one large room.
    However once you do this and set up the zoning, it seems you lose any visibility of the rooms within a zone. For example, in 'System Summary' all I see is RADIATOR VALVE. It doesn't tell me that 'Living room' actually has 2 radiator valves in the same room, or that 'Kitchen Dining' is actually 2 rooms with a radiator valve in each.
    I would have liked to see the setup process involving adding each room by name as step one, then grouping these into zones, with the ability to move them between zones (e.g. moving a Guest Bedroom from an 'unused' zone to an 'active' zone)
    I'm interested in how everyone else manages the zoning process?
    A key thing to think about when you consider different combinations of radiators and rooms for zoning is whether to use a single room zone or a multi-room zone. (This is a setting within the zone settings)

    In a "single room zone" there is only one nominated temperature sensor for the zone and all TRV's within the zone use this reading. This sensor could be a wall sensor or one of the HR92's in the zone. (You can choose which one) Multiple HR92's in a single room zone work in unison when controlling their radiators as they are supplied the same set point and the same temperature measurement to work from. (Relayed via the controller)

    Single room zone is the obvious choice if all the radiators in the zone are in the same "space", such as a closed off room. It gets a bit more nebulous in an open plan area like a joined kitchen / dining room area whether single room zone (and thus a single sensor) is appropriate because if the thermal characteristics of the two areas are too different you might see quite a heat gradient across the area. (Like heat from a kitchen causing that to be hotter than the dining room side, and radiators not compensating)

    A multi-room zone still tells each HR92 to follow the same set point schedule but to use its own internal temperature sensor. The primary use for this mode is if you want to combine different rooms into the same zone for the purposes of scheduling and reducing the number zones required. A good example would be combining two children's bedrooms - you want the same temperature schedule in both rooms but measuring the temperature in one room is obviously not going to regulate the temperature in the other room properly - they must both use their own individual sensors.

    However it can also be used in scenarios like upstairs/downstairs landing (the upstairs will generally be hotter if only one sensing point is used) large open plan areas with different thermal characteristics around the "room", unusually long and skinny living rooms etc...

    The pros and cons of the two modes are:

    Single room zone - one nominated sensor takes the reading for the entire zone and all TRV's operate in unison using the same inputs to control the radiators equally. A remote wall sensor can be used for better accuracy. Adjusting an HR92 directly will show the manual override on the controller and also change the set point of the other HR92's in the zone. (After a few minute delay) Not appropriate for radiators in completely different rooms or spaces.

    Multi room zone - every HR92 uses its own internal sensor to make a decision about its own radiator heat output to regulate the temperature in it's vicinity. A remote wall sensor cannot be used. Adjusting an HR92 directly will change the set point on that HR92 (until the next scheduled set point change) but this change will NOT be shown on the controller and will not propogate to other HR92's in the same zone. (So one child adjusting their bedroom HR92 won't affect the other bedroom in the same zone) Appropritate for radiators in different rooms/spaces, and might also be useful in large areas that are nominally a single space but are too disjoint in thermal properties to get an even heat throughout the area from a single temperature measurement. Only the temperature measurement of the first HR92 is displayed on the controller so there's no way to know from the controller what temperature is measured at additional HR92's in the zone - you need to look directly at the HR92.
    Other than that so far so good. A couple of minor things, such as the controller doesn't sit very tightly or securely on the wall-mount kit - it wobbles a bit when you touch the screen, and it can be lifted straight off. I would have liked to see it lock into place, as I have visions of it getting knocked upwards then falling straight onto the floor off the mount.
    Yes this looseness on the wall-mount is worrying to me too, on a couple of occasions it has been knocked in an upwards direction and nearly come off the stand. It's a snug fit on the table stand so its disapointing that the wall mount is so loose. When I get around to it one day I plan to apply some thin self adhesive felt pad to the wall mount around the centre connector to pad it out a bit and make it a bit tighter.
    Also I have the HR92 set for 'room temperature' display which to me seems preferable to set temperature. However as the bottom part of the LCD is unused in idle mode, it would have been nice to have the 'other' temperature displayed at the bottom too. Don't know whether these devices are capable of receiving OTA firmware updates from the controller?
    As far as we know field / over the air firmware upgrades for the HR92 (and all devices apart from the Evotouch controller itself) are not possible unfortunately. Also the HR92's LCD screen is not a bitmap screen - it's a fixed symbol screen like an LCD watch with the lower line designed for letters - there's no guarentee that it has the necessary symbol segments to be able to display a temperature at the bottom. (But even if it could, the lack of any firmware updates is a show stopper - there have been no HR92 firmware revisions for the last 5 years)
    Last edited by DBMandrake; 12th April 2020 at 05:06 PM.

  9. #9
    Automated Home Lurker
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Posts
    8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DBMandrake View Post
    Just set a continous override to something like 10C in the guest room zone. It will be overridden by the heating off action but will go back to the continous override temperature when the system is turned back on.
    Ah yes that does have the same desired effect, thank you.



    Yes, a zone is something that can be uniquely scheduled and controlled. Usually a single room, but there is a special "multi-room zone" zone type that can be configured which applies the same schedule to multiple rooms.
    Thanks for the detailed explanation, it makes sense for things like a downstairs hallway/upstairs landing to be a multi-room zone as the temperature differential between the two sensors will be quite high.
    It almost seems like there should be another mode, like multi-room zone but that allows either HR92 to adjust the set temperature and mirror that to the other HR92s. Or to average the reading between multiple sensors in a single-room zone. In reality I doubt I'll be using the manual control on the HR92 anyway so doesn't really matter.


    As far as we know field / over the air firmware upgrades for the HR92 (and all devices apart from the Evotouch controller itself) are not possible unfortunately. Also the HR92's LCD screen is not a bitmap screen - it's a fixed symbol screen like an LCD watch with the lower line designed for letters - there's no guarentee that it has the necessary symbol segments to be able to display a temperature at the bottom. (But even if it could, the lack of any firmware updates is a show stopper - there have been no HR92 firmware revisions for the last 5 years)
    I did notice that I think there is a USB socket underneath a cap on the HR92 so maybe firmware updates aren't out of the question. The lower line on the display is a multicharacter 11 segment display so more than capable of displaying temperature, albeit without the 'degrees' symbol. Something like '20C' would be fine.

  10. #10
    Automated Home Legend
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    NE UK
    Posts
    1,149

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bruce_miranda View Post
    I am from the camp that actually does not think the battery contacts are to blame. I actually think we feel they need fixing and in doing so reboot devices and hence they appear to work again. I actually believe the weakness is in the radio protocol.
    I am of the same view. The best example is one you have raised. The HW sensor. If I get error messages in the log it is always the HW sensor telling me contact has been lost. Nothing to do with the batteries fitting properly, although they could be tighter, as without touching the batteries it self rights later and is fine for some time. As it is the only item where I get this report it has to be the signal strength emanating from the device or, as you have found, its orientation.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •