Radiators with Evohome HR92 and Valencia valves warming when they shouldn't

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  • jbuller
    Automated Home Jr Member
    • Sep 2020
    • 16

    Radiators with Evohome HR92 and Valencia valves warming when they shouldn't

    Hello

    I hope someone can help with stopping radiators warming unexpectedly.

    I've just had Honeywell Valencia V120-15 valves and Evohome HR92s put on all but one of my 9 radiators over 3 floors served by a combi boiler. We have a schedule setup in the Evohome app and optimisation is turned on.

    We are also using Control4 but this should be just an alternative interface, no additional instructions. An issue that may or may not be related is that it sometimes seems to get confused between (exaggerated) Fahrenheit[?] and Celsius readings. There room value do flick back. However the tiles consistently displays "49" for all rooms rather than a realistic temperature.

    For three days now radiators in just 2of the rooms have been hot without any apparent need. The current and upcoming set point is (well) below the current temperature.
    temperature-last-24-hour 7-9-2020.jpg
    temperature-last-24-hour Office 2020-09-08.jpg

    Other rooms in the house have not gotten above 22 degrees.
    When I check the HR92 position it says it is 00 (closed) and the controller says its not calling for heat (in the installation menu). Of course it could have gotten hot and already shut down.

    I've re-run calibration on both. In the middle this I verified that the black wheel is turned fully clockwise.*
    I hoped it was the optimisation settling down but its not getting better.

    My only theory is that despite appearances, the valves are in fact open and that whenever another radiator calls for heat, these ones are getting hot water too.*

    Any other explanations? What should I do?

    Screenshot_20200906-203534_Control4.jpg Screenshot_20200906-203548_Control4.jpg
  • garymtitley
    Automated Home Sr Member
    • Feb 2019
    • 59

    #2
    The black wheel should be turned anti clock wise before you fit the Hr 92 on the base.

    Comment

    • paulockenden
      Automated Home Legend
      • Apr 2015
      • 1719

      #3
      And make sure the little slidey switch engages properly.

      Comment

      • jbuller
        Automated Home Jr Member
        • Sep 2020
        • 16

        #4
        I've tripple checked both valves while hot. As before I:
        * Took off the HR92. Checked the black wheel wont turn any more clockwise.
        * Turned it fully anticlockwise
        * Put the HR92 on and slide clicked into place
        * Seen the position reported as 96
        * Heard calibration wind the pin down
        * Checked the position is reported as 00

        Comment

        • garymtitley
          Automated Home Sr Member
          • Feb 2019
          • 59

          #5
          So you've sorted it,or not?

          Comment

          • jbuller
            Automated Home Jr Member
            • Sep 2020
            • 16

            #6
            No.
            I just verified the same setup as previous days.

            As far as I can tell, when the HR92 says has closed the valve, and a manual finger check shows it cannot be closed futher (without more force than I'm initially comfortable with), it is in fact still letting hot water in to the radiator.

            I can't otherwise explain why these radiators get pointlessly warm?

            This would be so much easier if there was a historic record of when each HR92 calls for heat. But as far as I know you can only check that manually on the controller?

            Comment

            • garymtitley
              Automated Home Sr Member
              • Feb 2019
              • 59

              #7
              Just out of curiosity,what temp setting do you have set when the heating is off,mine are set to 5 degrees so basically a frost protection setting.I take it the stroke setting is set to the default of 0 on the Hr92.

              Comment

              • garymtitley
                Automated Home Sr Member
                • Feb 2019
                • 59

                #8
                Just noticed on the graph you are showing that your set back temp is 15 degrees,that could well be your problem,try setting it to 5 or ten degrees and see what happens.

                Comment

                • DBMandrake
                  Automated Home Legend
                  • Sep 2014
                  • 2361

                  #9
                  Originally posted by jbuller View Post
                  No.
                  I just verified the same setup as previous days.

                  As far as I can tell, when the HR92 says has closed the valve, and a manual finger check shows it cannot be closed futher (without more force than I'm initially comfortable with), it is in fact still letting hot water in to the radiator.

                  I can't otherwise explain why these radiators get pointlessly warm?

                  This would be so much easier if there was a historic record of when each HR92 calls for heat. But as far as I know you can only check that manually on the controller?
                  This should be a fairly easy problem to diagnose. Start with the basics.

                  Turn the zone down to 5C, (to ensure the HR92 has fully closed the valve - listen to it to make sure you hear it closing) wait for the radiator to cool, turn another zone up several degrees higher than its set point to produce a high boiler demand and see if the radiator that's turned down heats up with the one that you turned up.

                  If it does you have a mechanical problem with the valve not closing properly. Why you might have that with brand new valves is hard to say. Does it definitely still heat up if you manually screw the black wheel down ? (Don't over tighten it as it's only a plastic thread)

                  I have Valencia's myself and I would recommend:

                  1) Unscrew the "balancing insert" (the black plastic bit around the pin) until it is loose then tighten it slightly so it doesn't flop around. By default they come with the insert screwed in a long way which restricts the range of motion of the valve too much.
                  2) Set the HR92 Stroke mode to 1, which increases the force used to close the valve and increases the total range of travel. I found despite being Honeywell and being recommended for HR92's they don't work very well with the HR92 in the default Stroke 0 mode. Other Valencia owners have disagreed with me on this point but this is what I have found with mine.

                  My Valencias have been working perfectly with this configuration for a couple of years, and they certainly don't have any trouble with not closing properly - unlike the original valves they replaced which did have trouble with not closing properly after they had been in the system for a couple of years.
                  Last edited by DBMandrake; 9 September 2020, 10:38 PM.

                  Comment

                  • jbuller
                    Automated Home Jr Member
                    • Sep 2020
                    • 16

                    #10
                    Thanks for the advice.
                    Turn the zone down to 5C, (to ensure the HR92 has fully closed the valve - listen to it to make sure you hear it closing) wait for the radiator to cool, turn another zone up several degrees higher than its set point to produce a high boiler demand and see if the radiator that's turned down heats up with the one that you turned up.
                    Did this. It warmed up

                    1) Unscrew the "balancing insert" (the black plastic bit around the pin) until it is loose then tighten it slightly so it doesn't flop around. By default they come with the insert screwed in a long way which restricts the range of motion of the valve too much.
                    I've not touched it yet but here's what it looks like

                    How much are you suggesting unscrewing the top nut?

                    Comment

                    • DBMandrake
                      Automated Home Legend
                      • Sep 2014
                      • 2361

                      #11
                      Originally posted by jbuller View Post
                      Thanks for the advice.

                      Did this. It warmed up


                      I've not touched it yet but here's what it looks like

                      How much are you suggesting unscrewing the top nut?
                      Don't unscrew the bronze nut unless you want water everywhere.

                      The balancing insert is the small black plastic bit with a small hex on it. You can unscrew it right out with just your finger tips without harm but it should be left in as it works as a support bush for the pin as well. I unscrewed mine until they felt loose then tightened them slightly. This gives maximum operating range for the HR92. Then set the HR92 to stroke 1 mode as well.

                      By the way if after all this screwing the black wheel from the HR92 base down manually (and it doesn't need to be turned hard) still doesn't stop the flow there must be something wrong with the valve body - perhaps a foreign object like a solder blob has got wedged in it or perhaps the rubber plunger is defective from new.

                      If you can't stop the flow turning the wheel by hand neither can the HR92!

                      Also check that the white base with the black wheel is not being cross threaded on the valve body as that would prevent it from screwing down far enough and prevent the valve closing properly. A plastic thread onto a steel thread is not difficult to cross thread..

                      Before screwing the white section onto the valve body make sure the black wheel was turned anticlockwise to the limit stop first so that it doesn't interfere with you screwing the white base onto the valve body.
                      Last edited by DBMandrake; 11 September 2020, 02:06 PM.

                      Comment

                      • jbuller
                        Automated Home Jr Member
                        • Sep 2020
                        • 16

                        #12
                        Megathanks to for the advice @DBMandrake.
                        I believe I have resolved the issues, with the simple engineering technique of screwing them down properly!
                        I think the valve was not being reached or not enough by the HR92 powered pin. Obvious really but not a point to check that I found anywhere.

                        When I screwed them down all them way they both worked.
                        As you suggested at some point there has been some cross threading on the one that was harder to reach.
                        I have also set the stroke on it to 1 as it did seem stiffer. I'll experiment with putting it back to 0.

                        Comment

                        • DBMandrake
                          Automated Home Legend
                          • Sep 2014
                          • 2361

                          #13
                          Originally posted by jbuller View Post
                          Megathanks to for the advice @DBMandrake.
                          I believe I have resolved the issues, with the simple engineering technique of screwing them down properly!
                          I think the valve was not being reached or not enough by the HR92 powered pin. Obvious really but not a point to check that I found anywhere.

                          When I screwed them down all them way they both worked.
                          As you suggested at some point there has been some cross threading on the one that was harder to reach.
                          I have also set the stroke on it to 1 as it did seem stiffer. I'll experiment with putting it back to 0.
                          Ah yes, if the white base is not screwed down onto the valve body properly it may not push the pin down far enough to totally close it.

                          So it needs to be down enough but not enough to damage the plastic thread. My technique to fit the bases to the valves is to unscrew the black wheel as I first described, then tighten the white base down on the valve body finger tight, then temporarily drop the HR92 onto it (without closing the locking latch) and turn the HR92 body to give a bit more leverage.

                          You'll probably find you get about another 30 degrees of rotation from the white base when turning the HR92 body, and you can get a good "feel" for when it's nipped up tight enough but without over tightening it. Then lift the HR92 off again and place it back on in your desired orientation and lock the latch to complete the job.

                          Using this technique of turning the HR92 body to complete the tightening of the base will give a much more consistent torquing of the base onto the valve as it's hard to judge how tight the base is just turning it directly with your finger tips and the tendency is for it not to be tight enough.

                          Glad you found the problem and it turned out to be simple in hindsight. I always check the simple things first and work my way from there.
                          Last edited by DBMandrake; 12 September 2020, 04:37 PM.

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