Gas meter monitoring

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  • Jemster
    Automated Home Guru
    • Dec 2018
    • 123

    Gas meter monitoring

    Has anybody got any suggestions for a device for monitoring gas usage?

    We’ve been happily using the Loop Energy Saver for the past couple of years, the gas component sticks on to the meter front panel and monitors the dial rotations. It’s been excellent for showing us the impact of various things (e.g. working from home) on our gas bill.

    Problem is, they’ve decided to discontinue it, and although they are offering electric monitor users an upgrade path, they aren’t supporting the gas portion going forwards. Remind me NEVER to buy a device that requires an external server to get data from my front door to my computer...

    I can’t find any alternative anywhere. Any ideas?
  • Jemster
    Automated Home Guru
    • Dec 2018
    • 123

    #2
    Wow. I do seem to have hit on a unique problem. 200+ views and no suggestions.

    Does everybody with gas have a smart meter these days? I don’t believe it’s possible to get one in N.Ireland unfortunately.

    Sounds like a business opportunity to me... if it’s not a problem isolated to N.I.

    Comment

    • paulockenden
      Automated Home Legend
      • Apr 2015
      • 1719

      #3
      I use Smappee for monitoring my gas meter. But the gas monitor only works in conjunction with the electricity monitor.

      Also, they seems to be going more upmarket, with installer based products, and not focusing on the end user market so much.

      Comment

      • toscal
        Moderator
        • Oct 2005
        • 2061

        #4
        A quick Google came up with these
        Saveometer
        Fludia
        IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.
        Renovation Spain Blog

        Comment

        • Jemster
          Automated Home Guru
          • Dec 2018
          • 123

          #5
          Grrr. Had a complete response to all of these typed up, submitted and the forum told me I had a missing token. Lost it.

          Ok, so in summary...
          Thanks for the suggestions.
          Saveometer is no good as it’s got no ability to get readings off the unit (and only updates at best once an hour and only 100cu/ft of gas at a time according to Amazon reviews
          Fludia would be interesting except it looks like part of a system I know nothing about and don’t want to get into interface boards and LoRa and writing custom software
          Smappee looks the most likely but the idea of installers (of which there are none in NI who actually seem to mention it on their website) doesn’t sound economically viable.

          Thanks for the suggestions, I’ll keep looking I guess.

          Comment

          • HenGus
            Automated Home Legend
            • May 2014
            • 1001

            #6
            You could consider getting a smart meter. Octopus produces detailed usage graphs:D83AD2A2-8BAB-41E1-92EF-954EB9286087.jpg

            Comment

            • Jemster
              Automated Home Guru
              • Dec 2018
              • 123

              #7
              Originally posted by HenGus View Post
              You could consider getting a smart meter. Octopus produces detailed usage graphs:[ATTACH=CONFIG]1661[/ATTACH]
              There ain't no Smart Meters in Northern Ireland... as far as I can tell.

              The Govt. scheme to get everybody upgraded to Smart Meters didn't extend as far as N.I. so none of our suppliers use or install them.

              Comment

              • toscal
                Moderator
                • Oct 2005
                • 2061

                #8
                This is more a roll your own type device. . I think it uses an Arduino.
                IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.
                Renovation Spain Blog

                Comment

                • DBMandrake
                  Automated Home Legend
                  • Sep 2014
                  • 2361

                  #9
                  So I've just received the email notification from loop today.

                  The "legacy" version of loop is being switched off on the 19th of December and while they'll send out one of their new electricity monitors for free to existing customers that means no gas monitoring. (Also I've looked at the new app which has been compatible with the legacy electricity monitor for a while, and it's not very good and doesn't give me the detailed graphs of the old system)

                  One month's notice to look for something else isn't great in my opinion! Hopefully there is a way to download my historical usage data before it is switched off...

                  So I take it from the above that nobody has really found a good alternative yet ?

                  Comment

                  • Jemster
                    Automated Home Guru
                    • Dec 2018
                    • 123

                    #10
                    Originally posted by DBMandrake View Post
                    So I've just received the email notification from loop today.

                    The "legacy" version of loop is being switched off on the 19th of December and while they'll send out one of their new electricity monitors for free to existing customers that means no gas monitoring. (Also I've looked at the new app which has been compatible with the legacy electricity monitor for a while, and it's not very good and doesn't give me the detailed graphs of the old system)

                    One month's notice to look for something else isn't great in my opinion! Hopefully there is a way to download my historical usage data before it is switched off...

                    So I take it from the above that nobody has really found a good alternative yet ?
                    Nope, nothing yet. I was sure I had a mail saying mid-November was cut-off date for the old system but it’s still working and I can’t locate the mail. Interesting you’ve had mails so late as my offer was in mid-October. I didn’t bother. Electricity monitoring is 10-a-penny and, as you say, the new app is pretty limited. Also specifically not covering NI or facilitating setting up your own tariffs last time I looked.

                    Such a pity there’s no easy way of reverse engineering the hardware as it functions great for what I need and it will be sorely missed.

                    Comment

                    • DBMandrake
                      Automated Home Legend
                      • Sep 2014
                      • 2361

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Jemster View Post
                      Nope, nothing yet. I was sure I had a mail saying mid-November was cut-off date for the old system but it’s still working and I can’t locate the mail. Interesting you’ve had mails so late as my offer was in mid-October. I didn’t bother. Electricity monitoring is 10-a-penny and, as you say, the new app is pretty limited. Also specifically not covering NI or facilitating setting up your own tariffs last time I looked.

                      Such a pity there’s no easy way of reverse engineering the hardware as it functions great for what I need and it will be sorely missed.
                      Yes I'm still really annoyed as well.

                      The offer for a free upgrade to the new electricity monitor ends on the 7th, I just completed mine and it has shipped - I just had to pay £3 postage.

                      For the price of postage while I look around for alternatives I might as well as I'll still be able to monitor electricity use, and I'll at least be able to import my historical use into it as well.

                      I wonder if its worth trying to set up wireshark to sniff the traffic generated by the main receiver unit before the switch off day to see how it communicates with the mothership ? I suspect its all TLS encrypted though so we probably can't learn much from wireshark.

                      Comment

                      • Jemster
                        Automated Home Guru
                        • Dec 2018
                        • 123

                        #12
                        Originally posted by DBMandrake View Post
                        Yes I'm still really annoyed as well.

                        The offer for a free upgrade to the new electricity monitor ends on the 7th, I just completed mine and it has shipped - I just had to pay £3 postage.

                        For the price of postage while I look around for alternatives I might as well as I'll still be able to monitor electricity use, and I'll at least be able to import my historical use into it as well.

                        I wonder if its worth trying to set up wireshark to sniff the traffic generated by the main receiver unit before the switch off day to see how it communicates with the mothership ? I suspect its all TLS encrypted though so we probably can't learn much from wireshark.
                        I suppose it’s worth a shot, but whenever I got my setup, I bought it secondhand. The seller hadn’t unregistered the original account and I actually had to send the hardware back to Loop for reprogramming. That made me think the encryption keys are stored in individual firmware with no ability to flash over Ethernet. Just makes me think the solution is too secure to sniff it out easily.

                        Comment

                        • Edinburgh2000
                          Automated Home Guru
                          • Dec 2016
                          • 134

                          #13
                          I've had the same problem, of the Loop gas monitor being discontinued. I have just ordered a Smappee gas monitor. Although Smappee is more geared up for professional installers, if you have the legacy electricity monitor (and hence have a login to the dashboard) you can click "Get Smappee" on that dashboard and order a gas monitor. The transaction is a bit hard work, involving an IBAN payment to their Belgian bank account. But at least it was billed in £ sterling. I'll post an update once it arrives and I get it installed.

                          The installation manual shows how it works.

                          Comment

                          • DBMandrake
                            Automated Home Legend
                            • Sep 2014
                            • 2361

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Edinburgh2000 View Post
                            I've had the same problem, of the Loop gas monitor being discontinued. I have just ordered a Smappee gas monitor. Although Smappee is more geared up for professional installers, if you have the legacy electricity monitor (and hence have a login to the dashboard) you can click "Get Smappee" on that dashboard and order a gas monitor. The transaction is a bit hard work, involving an IBAN payment to their Belgian bank account. But at least it was billed in £ sterling. I'll post an update once it arrives and I get it installed.

                            The installation manual shows how it works.
                            Please keep us informed. Although I have the new Loop electricity monitor on the way I'd happily jump ship to a system that provides integrated gas and electricity monitoring.

                            I'm not sure what you mean by "legacy electricity monitor" - are you talking about a Smappee product that is no longer available?

                            For someone who doesn't have any Smappee products or account, what would be required to get both gas and electricity monitoring ?
                            Last edited by DBMandrake; 5 December 2020, 07:24 PM.

                            Comment

                            • Edinburgh2000
                              Automated Home Guru
                              • Dec 2016
                              • 134

                              #15
                              Originally posted by DBMandrake View Post
                              I'm not sure what you mean by "legacy electricity monitor" - are you talking about a Smappee product that is no longer available?

                              For someone who doesn't have any Smappee products or account, what would be required to get both gas and electricity monitoring ?
                              Yes. I bought this Smappee Energy monitor in December 2017. It is no longer available. I am trusting that my Gas & Water Monitor, when it arrives, will connect to the legacy Energy Monitor.

                              New customers will have to configure their own systems, selecting from the menu of components that are available as Smappee Infinity. In some ways, that looks to be better as it offers much more flexibility. I like the idea of a hub for 4 Current Transformers (CTs). I have a large house with four separate distribution boards fed from my main incoming supply and I would like to monitor the four supplies independently. So I might consider upgrading anyway.

                              Smappee appears to be avoiding end-user customers, and focussing on installers. However, from my existing user dashboard, I have access to the "Get Smappee" form, which (I hope) will work for anyone with that hyperlink. That will require you to complete the form to get a quote. For me, they came back fairly quickly with a price in sterling. Initially they had added a £25 fee because my invoice was less than £180 (€200). Surprisingly, they then withdrew that fee "as this only applies to companies". (Implying that they don't refuse to deal with individual end users.) As I wrote above, payment has to be to their Belgian bank account, which is a bit of a faff but, from my bank at least, there is no fee as the transaction is in sterling.

                              I see that that form is only for accessories, including the gas monitor. There is a note at the foot of the form "Yes, I know that these products only work with a Smappee Infinity setup including a Genius as gateway and with Smappee legacy monitors (Smappee Energy, Solar, Plus and Pro)." You could try requesting a quote for the Gas Monitor and then, once you establish email contact with the quote, explain that you are technically competent, and would like to buy the base Gateway units as well. My (limited) experience is that they are quite friendly and helpful, so it could be worth a shot.
                              Last edited by Edinburgh2000; 20 December 2020, 09:22 AM. Reason: Corrected "Gas & Electricity" to "Gas & Water", to quote the product name accurately.

                              Comment

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