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Thread: Evohome Xclusive 30 Domoticz - Should I get Intergas Gateway LAN2RF ?

  1. #1
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    Default Evohome Xclusive 30 Domoticz - Should I get Intergas Gateway LAN2RF ?

    Hello Everyone,

    As this is my first post I'd like to thank those stalwarts who have been posting here for many years - you know who you are ! The knowledge and insight you've shared has been invaluable.

    The basic question is can anyone give me an insight into the information available with a LAN2RF and its interface to Domoticz or similar ?

    A little background - I've had a freestanding Evohome system (wifi controller and HR92s) for the last two years and have recently replaced the boiler with an Intergas Xclusive 30 as system boiler. I've installed the DHW kit and boiler control is by BDR91. The system is configured as a modified X-plan with DHW priority, all controlled by Evohome. I also intend to implement Intergas weather control on the boiler when I have a better understanding of what I've got now. Evohome is linked to Domoticz giving me insight into the characteristics of the rooms and Evohome's behaviour on a real-time and historical basis.

    I'm now trying to fine tune the system for maximum economy. The key information I want is boiler return temperature on an historical basis.

    I can find little information online about the LAN2RF.

    What I have found suggests it could be linked to Domoticz a number of years ago, but can it now and does it work?

    The Intergas video on how to bind to the boiler uses the supplied Honeywell Round Thermostat to do this, and therefore control the boiler. But I don't want this - that's Evohome's job. Is there a way round (pun intended) this ?

    The main purpose of the LAN2RF seems to be the ability to control the boiler via an app (which since the change to a new app version appear to be buggy to say the least). This is irrelevant to me. As is information on a snap-shot basis since I want to balance room comfort with the boiler flow and return temperatures with the aim of keeping the boiler in condensing mode as much as possible.

    Will a LAN2RF give me the information I want in a suitable format?

    Any advice will be appreciated.

    Best regards

  2. #2
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    There's a nice integration between LAN2RF and home-assistant (HA) - IMHO, HA's evohome integration is better than Domoticz's too.

    Note: the CV outflow temp is available via the 'public' API - the CV return temp is not.

    If you can use python, try this: https://github.com/zxdavb/incomfort-client - it will show you all that is available:
    Code:
    (venv) root@hostname:~/$ python incomfortclient/__init__.py ${HOSTNAME}
    {
      'display_code': 126, 
      'display_text': 'standby', 
      'fault_code': 0, 
      
      'is_burning': False, 
      'is_failed': False,
      'is_pumping': False, 
      'is_tapping': False, 
      
      'heater_temp': 31.22, 
      'tap_temp': 27.91, 
      'pressure': 1.23, 
      'serial_no': '175t23072', 
      
      'nodenr': 200, 
      'rf_message_rssi': 38, 
      'rfstatus_cntr': 0, 
      
      'room_1': {'room_temp': 26.4, 'setpoint': 19.5, 'override': 19.5}, 
      'room_2': {'room_temp': None, 'setpoint': None, 'override': 19.0}
    }
    Using a Round Thermostat (or, indeed, two) is a separate issue - you can still controller the boiler via TPI (BDR91) or modulation (Opentherm bridge).

    2020-11-29 (2).jpg
    Last edited by zxdavb; 29th November 2020 at 08:11 PM.

  3. #3
    Automated Home Legend paulockenden's Avatar
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    These are the devices that it offers to Domoricz.

    Screenshot_2020-11-29 20.44.06_bR7J4I.jpg

    P.

  4. #4
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    To summarise - they both pull essentially the same data (HA pulls more data, but these differences are trivial).

    Thus, in both cases, you do not have CV return temp.

    You have no idea how annoyed I was when I found out that the CV return temp was not available.
    Last edited by zxdavb; 29th November 2020 at 10:02 PM.

  5. #5
    Automated Home Legend paulockenden's Avatar
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    Last of return temp is REALLY annoying. You can't get it via Opentherm either. But the sensor is there because you can see the value in the InComfort app.

  6. #6
    Automated Home Legend paulockenden's Avatar
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    One day I'll wireshark the app and see if there's a way of pulling the data by pretending to be a phone!

  7. #7
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    Many thanks to both of you for your prompt and complete replies - you've saved me from wasting my time and money.

    Commiserations to zxdavb - annoyed seems a very controlled response - I seem to remember that return temp was displayed when I looked at the app - so to discover it's not available in this case would have made me purple from the fingernails up !!

    Best regards Michael

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    Hadn't seen your last two posts Paul when I posted last - at least you've confirmed I had remembered correctly that it's in the app.

  9. #9
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    Default Heating return temperature IS available from LAN2RF - I believe

    IGNORE THIS POST - IT IS WRONG - Heating return temp NOT available from LAN2RF

    Tap Water Temperature (TWT) from the LAN2RF is Heating Return Temperature (HRT) - at least it is in my configuration !!!

    Not one to be thwarted, I bought another DHW kit, linked it to my 2nd controller and attached the strap on sensor to the return pipe.

    Yesterday a used LAN2RF InTouch Round Set arrived from eBay. Connected and added to Domoticz. All the devices specified in the previous posts are visible. I have recently changed my boiler type from being a system boiler to "Solo + cylinder" due to fitment of Intergas's cylinder stat which is directly connected to the boiler via a relay controlled by Evohome DHW and allows a higher flow temperature during HW demand.

    Values are being reported for TWT and they are following the values reported by the return pipe strap on sensor (Home2 HW) as shown in the graph below. The 2nd graph adds the flow values.

    11Dec20 custom-temperature-graph1.jpg

    11Dec20 custom-temperature-graph2.jpg


    I can't conceive TWT can be anything other than HRT - the boiler isn't being a combi and it can't be the temperature of the HW in the cylinder since the Intergas cylinder stat is only connected to the boiler via a relay controlled by Evohome for the duration of the programmed HW demand (5-6am). And the values bear no relation to the HW temp reported by Evohome. What else could TWT be ?

    I wouldn't expect the values reported by the strap on sensor to be precise - it is close to the boiler but not hard against it and is before one of the return pipes joins so not 100% of the return. It's also not designed to be used like this and I wonder about the effect of not being sealed against a cylinder and having air circulating round it. Finally it is located before the ABV - must check the settings !

    It's been less than 24 hours of monitoring but I'm 99% certain I'll have a redundant lightly used Evohome DHW kit soon.

    I'd be very interested to hear if anyone can confirm or deny this conclusion (any Intergas software gurus out there?) I will ask Intergas Technical about it when I next contact them, although I'd be surprised if there's anyone outside the Netherlands who has the knowledge.
    Last edited by BaronMole; 12th December 2020 at 12:31 PM.

  10. #10
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    TL;DR: (from my personal experience) I deny.

    I have an Intergas Eco RF 36 (configured as a system boiler - the CV is used to heat the DHW cylinder via a coil, and it has no running HW) with the older Lan2RF gateway (reddish rectangle, not black square).

    I cannot comment exactly where the three sensors are, but it definitely has plumbing/sensors for:
    - CV out (circulating volume / heating) output
    - CV return
    - DHW out (it doesn't come back - it goes down the sink)

    In fact, the sensors may be in the ends of the heat exchanger - and if so, is it an accurate measure of the CV temp?

    Anyway, I have access to it via the Intouch and Intouch Service App.

    Intouch (user) App:
    - lets me set: on/off, DHW target temp, DHW comfort mode, Max CH temp, Pump off at night, Use Internet for outside temp
    - shows me: outside temp (total burner on time, total tap time)

    Intouch service (installer) App:
    - let me set: all(?) parameters
    - shows me as graph: Fan(%), Flame signal (uA), and *one of* (configurable): return temp/delivered temp/set temp/DHW temp
    - shows me as text: Tap request active, Water flow active, Pressure, Pump status, Pump power usage

    RESTful API to LAN2RF box:
    - lets me see: as per a couple of posts prior

    From all the above I can see (and it is easiest to notice immediately after the burner/pump first turn on):
    - the CV return does not normally match the DHW out (although they do get close to each other when the system quiesces).

    Below are some reading when burner on / pump on for CH (I think the differences are just due to propagation delay of data):
    57.8, 58.67 - CV out (App / WebAPI):
    42.9, N/A - CV return (App only):
    34.6, 36.59 - DHW out (App / WebAPI):

    When in pump overrun mode:
    45.1, 45.08
    44.3
    39.4, 39.42

    Conclusion: when the system is quiescent, the CV return sensor and the DHW out sensor are similar in value (thermal equilibrium) - they may not be close otherwise.
    Last edited by zxdavb; 11th December 2020 at 11:04 PM.

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