Phantom Overrides - Can anyone help?

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  • Jemster
    Automated Home Guru
    • Dec 2018
    • 123

    #16
    You and me both!

    I completely re-built the zone from scratch. And, as it's been warm enough, Eco has been on a fair bit of the week and only had the heating running a couple of evenings. Friday night being one of them, and finally it looked like it was working - heat went off at 9:35pm and stayed off! Victory!

    Errr... then came Saturday. I was in Eco mode, but Domoticz shows the heat went off at 9:45... and then came back up again at 9:50.
    Last night (Sunday) also Eco mode, it went off at 9:45 and stayed off.

    So, basically ITS STILL DOING IT! Despite totally wiping the Zone out, rebuilding it from scratch, swapping the heat sensor from an HR92 to the EvoHome controller and disabling manual overrides... The system is totally unreliable.

    I'm all out of ideas. At some stage in the future (we're refurbishing the house) we will be dropping from four radiators to, hopefully, two. If I'm really lucky, that might resolve the problem. I just don't get it. I'm 99.99% sure my problem is to do with the Eco-Off mode, but I really like that mode for every other room in the house. Will I have to add it to the ever-growing list of features that must be disabled to get a stable system?

    Comment

    • G4RHL
      Automated Home Legend
      • Jan 2015
      • 1580

      #17
      Fortunately it was only the one zone. No further problems. Eco mode I avoid as it seemed to fire things up when not needed. Hence not really eco.

      Comment

      • keylevel
        Automated Home Jr Member
        • Jan 2019
        • 19

        #18
        I'm a bit late to this - I've had similar issues in the past with a couple of zones, but only every now and then.

        Last time it happened, I went to look at the HR92 and saw the screen go blank and the device then restart (without me touching it). It appears as if the problem was an intermittent battery connection - I've suspected these were not great for a while, as the HR92's often restart when the top is clicked back on after changing the batteries.

        Edited to add:

        The restart sets the zone temperature to 20C until the next switch point, so zones where being left on overnight when they should have been off.

        Comment

        • G4RHL
          Automated Home Legend
          • Jan 2015
          • 1580

          #19
          Originally posted by keylevel View Post
          I'm a bit late to this - I've had similar issues in the past with a couple of zones, but only every now and then.

          Last time it happened, I went to look at the HR92 and saw the screen go blank and the device then restart (without me touching it). It appears as if the problem was an intermittent battery connection - I've suspected these were not great for a while, as the HR92's often restart when the top is clicked back on after changing the batteries.


          Edited to add:

          The restart sets the zone temperature to 20C until the next switch point, so zones where being left on overnight when they should have been off.
          The tightness of the batteries in their compartment is a long know problem. Sometimes slightly behind a contact of you can makes them a better fit.

          I have a switch point that operates during the night to do no more than ensure the room is at a low sitting just in case somebody overrides a TRV and forgets.

          Comment

          • keylevel
            Automated Home Jr Member
            • Jan 2019
            • 19

            #20
            Yes, I fixed the worst offender by gently reforming the contacts, and I suspect I need to do the same to others. I didn't mention that before as I wasn't sure it was a good idea to suggest that as a fix ;-)

            Nice to hear that I'm not the only one to have added "off" switch points as backups

            Though I think the real issue here is that an HR92 should power up at the current set point, not at a 20C override. I sometimes forget to cancel the override when I change batteries...

            Comment

            • bruce_miranda
              Automated Home Legend
              • Jul 2014
              • 2307

              #21
              The HRxx has no static memory of setpoints or schedules. It relies on the controller telling it what to do. So when you power it up, it defaults to 20C until the next sync cycle when the controller tells it what setpoint is required.

              Comment

              • bruce_miranda
                Automated Home Legend
                • Jul 2014
                • 2307

                #22
                We have proven that a low battery causes the offending device to send out garbled messages that overwhelms the radio channel. This then causes a knock on impact on all the comms across the system. In one extreme example the entire system went down due to one device going low and then seemingly dead but was constantly sending out garbage. My latest advice is, don't try and extract every last bit of juice from your batteries. At the first sign of a low battery in your device, change it to a fresh pair and store the old batteries to use in remotes and clocks etc. It's not worth gambling with your heating system for a case of a couple of AAs.

                Comment

                • G4RHL
                  Automated Home Legend
                  • Jan 2015
                  • 1580

                  #23
                  I had a phantom override during the night. Sounds like a sexual experience! Nature called in the early hours and I heard the boiler firing for a short time. Ignored it then but checked it at 05:30. An HR92 on my kitchen radiator had triggered it. The app showed that an override had been set at 17c until 07:00. Nobody around to do that. The schedule has the temperature dropping to 18c at 19:00 and then 10c at 22:00 until 07:00 the next morning. Nobody adjusted it during the day and it can’t be knocked easily. The override had to have happened after 22:00 but we were heading to bed then! All settings seem to be fine and the batteries are good. The only other thing I noticed was I could not at first access the schedule for this one HR92 but all seems fine now.

                  Comment

                  • keylevel
                    Automated Home Jr Member
                    • Jan 2019
                    • 19

                    #24
                    I have noticed that the iPhone app sometimes reports something like "unable to access schedule" - "fixed" by closing and restarting the app.

                    Comment

                    • G4RHL
                      Automated Home Legend
                      • Jan 2015
                      • 1580

                      #25
                      Originally posted by keylevel View Post
                      I have noticed that the iPhone app sometimes reports something like "unable to access schedule" - "fixed" by closing and restarting the app.
                      I can add a little more to my post. In the app I could open the schedule for this one room but could not exit that page for that room. I had to go back to the main IOS screen to exit the app itself and then try again. I did with the same result. I then tried a further time but this time might a very slight change to the schedule for that room and saved out. Thereafter there has been no problem with the page for that room and all is as it should be. I5 seems too much of a coincidence that the very room that had a mysterious override also had glitches on its page in the app. All now, hopefully, is good.

                      Comment

                      • roydonaldson
                        Automated Home Guru
                        • Jan 2013
                        • 205

                        #26
                        Originally posted by bruce_miranda View Post
                        We have proven that a low battery causes the offending device to send out garbled messages that overwhelms the radio channel. This then causes a knock on impact on all the comms across the system. In one extreme example the entire system went down due to one device going low and then seemingly dead but was constantly sending out garbage. My latest advice is, don't try and extract every last bit of juice from your batteries. At the first sign of a low battery in your device, change it to a fresh pair and store the old batteries to use in remotes and clocks etc. It's not worth gambling with your heating system for a case of a couple of AAs.
                        Just had exactly this. Came down in the morning and had 3 zones with 20C overrides on them, when they should have been at 10C overnight. Turned overrides off, couple of minutes later, overrides back on again and rooms heating up. Batteries out of main controller, back in again, same thing. Tried turning off overrides 3/4 times, after a few minutes on each time they went back to 10C.

                        The only way it turned out to fix it was to remove the batteries in each of the HR92s in each of the zones.

                        Turns out there was one HR92 in my house that was completely powered off, with dead batteries in it. Guess they ran out overnight and screwed the system up.

                        Comment

                        • G4RHL
                          Automated Home Legend
                          • Jan 2015
                          • 1580

                          #27
                          In my case the batteries were all good.

                          Comment

                          • The PyroPath
                            Automated Home Jr Member
                            • Apr 2022
                            • 12

                            #28
                            Any of you perhaps using NH-MH rechargeable batteries in less than favourable temperature conditions? I noticed similar behaviour where a momentary dip in voltage would result in a reboot of the knobs, which caused them to jump to 20 (default) right after coming back online. This happens around 10-12 degrees room temp approx.

                            In addition this gets worse at peak power draw moments, like high torque points when closing a valve.

                            Comment

                            • G4RHL
                              Automated Home Legend
                              • Jan 2015
                              • 1580

                              #29
                              Mine were s tankard AAs. I believe it is not advisable to use rechargeables in the HR92s as their power output is less.

                              Comment

                              • keylevel
                                Automated Home Jr Member
                                • Jan 2019
                                • 19

                                #30
                                I've been using NiMH for years, and the only issue I've had is with the contacts of the HR92 itself.

                                You do need to remember to change a setting to match the discharge profile of the cells though.

                                Comment

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