Auto Filling Bath

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  • dodgey
    Automated Home Lurker
    • Mar 2006
    • 5

    Auto Filling Bath

    Hi, I'm hoping you can help me. I've got most of my house sorted with X10 and Pront Pro NG. The last hurdle is the bath! - I have seen on several occasions on TV people who's baths can be filled remotely, including on a changing room style program for a disabled man.

    I have searched the Internet high and lo and can find nothing. Nada. Zilch!

    Anyone got any pointers to the methods used or suppliers who can advise/supply me. Plumbing and electonics are no problem for me.

    I'm assuming the systems I've seen on TV use thermostatic mixers, a depth sensor on the ouside surface of the bath and a an electronic thermostat/temp sensor somewhere else? Obviously two variable solenoid valves are going to be needed for the hot and cold.

    I have a combi boiler so hot water production is unlimited.

    PLease help me obi-wan! - I am 100% stuck!
  • n07tv
    Automated Home Sr Member
    • May 2004
    • 52

    #2
    Re: Auto Filling Bath

    Everything should be low voltage (<24v) and supplied from an isolating power supply. Solenoid valves can be fitted inline with the tap feeds and controlled from wherever you wish. In series with the control to these is the level sensor, which opens the circuit when the level is full.

    We use capacitive prox sensors all the time in industry and these are commonly used on jacuzzi baths to ensure a minimum level before the pumps operate. RS will probably do something suitable, but they ojnly work thorugh plastic/acrylic baths. Obviously if you have pressed steel or cast iron, you are stu**ed.

    N.

    Comment

    • dodgey
      Automated Home Lurker
      • Mar 2006
      • 5

      #3
      Re: Auto Filling Bath

      Thanks - it is indeed acrylic. (It's actually a whirlpool bath)

      The bit I'm missing is the logic software from this equation - I really don't want to have to do it myself (i.e. if the temp increases to a certain point, start adding cold, but slowly, until the rate of temp decline reaches a certain level etc etc). I would like that bit out of the box.

      I suppose, as I have very stable water temperature from my combi boiler I could have two proximity sensors. One at the level I know I want just hot filled up to, and then it switches to cold until the water reaches the next level. I'd just have to fill the bath , hot 1st, then cold top up, and experiment with sensor positions. (or additionally, a temp sensor that cuts the cold off even before it reaches the 2nd proximity sensor if it starts reaching optimum temperature sooner than expected). The 2nd sensor would then act also as a final safety cut off point

      hmmmm.....

      Can you, or anyone recommend a supplier/models for the solenoid valves (simple on/off valves may make the job a lot easier rather than variable ones. I'll look into the capacitive proximity sensors....

      hmm.... thinking more now :-) starting to see the software logic i can set into one of the home automation packlages...

      (Simplified)
      Hot valve on
      when the 1st sensr is reached...
      Hot valve off
      Cold valve on
      If temperature reaches x, or second sensor is reached, whichever 1st, stop!

      Comment

      • n07tv
        Automated Home Sr Member
        • May 2004
        • 52

        #4
        Re: Auto Filling Bath

        I know Sirai (Italian) do a very wide range with fittings for 22mm and 15mm piping. A good search on Google.co.uk for 'solenoid valves' will bring up some deecnt options, or just chat to your local plmuber merchants. I have Crosslings near here who always have useful stuff like this.

        Comment

        • toscal
          Moderator
          • Oct 2005
          • 2061

          #5
          Re: Auto Filling Bath

          Relax my young padawan.
          Try these people, they make all sorts of solenoid valves.
          Address is /www.giplindia.com/water_valve.htm and probably this section might be the one to go for www.giplindia.com/solenoid_appliance.htm as it states under the pictures that one of the uses is automatic electric water taps. Unfortunatly they are in India, and I don't know if they would do a small order. They may have a UK stockist.
          On the bath filling sensor, is your water pressure reasonably constant. An easy way to fill the bath to an approximate level could be t use a time based function.
          Turn on Hot tap.
          When timer = 3 minutes
          Then turn off Hot tap
          And turn on cold tap
          When timer = 2 minutes
          Turn off cold tap

          Not as good as a sensor based system but might be a useful backup if a sensor goes wobbly.
          Also you may want to think of some bypass control. If you have a power cut or a faulty valve, how will you fill your bath. Mind you if you have a power cut filling the bath is not going to be a high priority really.
          IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.
          Renovation Spain Blog

          Comment

          • dodgey
            Automated Home Lurker
            • Mar 2006
            • 5

            #6
            Re: Auto Filling Bath

            Thanks for that - Seems tracking down the soledoid valves is the easy bit . I looked up the sensors on RS and there are 5 pages of them ranging form £25 to £125!

            This is going to be fun :-)

            Comment

            • MichaelD
              Automated Home Guru
              • Mar 2006
              • 167

              #7
              Re: Auto Filling Bath

              There is an easier way to do this - and probably safer too.

              Go for a thermostatic mixing valve - they are pretty cheap on ebay, i.e. £10 or so. What that does is it mixes hot and cold so that the temperature that comes out at the tap is exactly right. They are really designed for single-tap sinks in NHS hospitals and care homes, so that nobody gets scalded.

              Then, put a single motorised valve downstream of the mixing valve. Turn it on to fill, turn it off when you have enough water. Use a separate tap for your automated fill, so that the user can still adjust water level and fine-tune the temperature using the normal taps, and you're done.

              I'm interested in how you close and open the plug though, solenoid and one of those cable-operated plugs seems like the answer, but it needs to be the right stuff, and the water level indicators sound like they work by magic. Where can I get one, and how much?

              Comment

              • dodgey
                Automated Home Lurker
                • Mar 2006
                • 5

                #8
                Re: Auto Filling Bath

                Hmmm - very interesting. The the thermostatic mixing valve sounds like a very good idea (I know the technology - my shower has one). Would keep the project much simper and resolve the manual override issue.

                I didn't plan to automate the plug drain, although that would be relatively easy by putting an actuator on the arem that operated the plug (I have one of the overflow operated plugs - twist it and the plug pops up)

                Can anyone on the trade recomment the specific capacitive proximity sensors used in whirlpool baths? That's my stumbling block at the moment. The can be very expensive and I would not want to buy the wrong ones...! :-)

                Comment

                • HomeHub
                  Automated Home Lurker
                  • Mar 2005
                  • 7

                  #9
                  Re: Auto Filling Bath

                  Exactly my thoughts....

                  I've got a digital shower too...

                  Just buy another one connect it up to the bath and pull out the on/off switch and replace it with something else you can control...

                  Then its just a simple matter of detecting the level in the bath...I wouldn't use X10 as the control though as I reckon you'll end up with wet floors more often than not!

                  Comment

                  • UKAutomation
                    Automated Home Jr Member
                    • Mar 2006
                    • 12

                    #10
                    Re: Auto Filling Bath

                    Sounds like if you went for the simpler option (with the temperature mixer tap) then you could probably knock up a simple control circuit using logic gates, etc which are triggered by a button on the bath or a switch in the room.

                    If you then wanted to interface this with the PC you could control the logic circuit via a parallel port or hook it up with X10, etc.

                    Sounds like a fun project though, good luck!
                    UK Automation - UK Home Automation suppliers
                    Free delivery on orders over £200!

                    Comment

                    • TimH
                      Automated Home Legend
                      • Feb 2004
                      • 509

                      #11
                      Re: Auto Filling Bath

                      I second the thermostatic valve approach, and the separate fill line so you can fine tune the temperature :-)

                      I'd also incorporate a timer that will shut-off the water feed if the bath isn't sensed to be "full" after a certain time, say 50% longer than it takes to fill a "normal" bath. This timer saves you from a couple of scenarios:

                      1. flooding the bathroom because your "bath full" sensor failed
                      2. running up a huge water bill while on holiday when the bath spuriously filled with the plug not in the plughole, and all the water went down the drain

                      Another option for level sensing are the Velleman kits available from maplin, CPC etc. for example:


                      And interface this to a relay so your "bath fill" solenoid only passes water when the water level in the bath is not high. If the level reaches "high" then the fill solenoid closes and stops the water flow. (there's a part number in the Q&A on the Maplin page to a kit that includes a relay output)

                      As for mounting the sensor, you can add a standpipe to the bath drain, out of sight and fit the sensor to that. Provided the (open) top of the standpipe is above the top of the bath then the standpipe will never overflow.

                      HTH,

                      Tim.
                      My Flickr Photos

                      Comment

                      • yumyum
                        Automated Home Lurker
                        • Mar 2006
                        • 1

                        #12
                        Re: Auto Filling Bath

                        Hi,
                        I have thought about an Auto filling bath for years now. I'm not familiar with this site but you were saying that it had been built and done?
                        Cheers Rob

                        Comment

                        • bobsmith
                          Automated Home Lurker
                          • Mar 2006
                          • 4

                          #13
                          Re: Auto Filling Bath

                          Just in case you want a back-up system Maplin.co.uk make a "bath overflow alarm" (While stocks last) click here -> http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?...=bath&doy=15m3

                          Comment

                          • NeilUK
                            Automated Home Sr Member
                            • Jul 2005
                            • 71

                            #14
                            Re: Auto Filling Bath

                            If you are looking for a packaged system to retrofit then look up EcoLogic UK, they manufacture autofilling systems for baths, basins etc.

                            I worked with them on a couple of porjects a year or two back and their kit is very good.

                            Comment

                            • phillson
                              Automated Home Lurker
                              • May 2005
                              • 5

                              #15
                              Re: Auto Filling Bath

                              I would recomend Ecologic aswell.
                              www.phillson.co.uk

                              Comment

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