General advice..( new confused user )

[Azaniah]

Hi,

I am about to start work on renovating my house, and as pretty much every room will be hacked about with or be new - now seems an ideal time to update my minimal network.

I am a developer and work from home 50% of the time, and as such have a fair few machines that need to be networked ( along with my mini studio for music ), and would like to have network access in pretty much every room.

I figure that 24 ports should do it for the pc / phone side of the network, ( although I am using a DECT phone so I guess I only need 1 port for that ), allowing access to ADSL for all machine.

Now the above two things I know I can achieve with cat5e.

The problem is future proofing the network and adding things such as Sky+, DAB, etc.

Ideally I would like to use the Multriroom Sky+ (HD) thing, so that the lounge has the main sky+ box, the master bed has the other box, and the other 2 beds / kitchen / study can have the choice of which ( is that possible?)

Where I am confused is what cable/cables should I be running? CAT5e plus coax, or cat6. 7.

CAT6 / 7 would require someone else to instal the cable ( which might be beyond the budget at the point this needs to be done ), whereas cat5e + coax could be done by myself.

It also seems that using anything other than standard cat5 and standard swtiches means that you end up using odd sized racks etc.

I have tried to read up as much as possible, but I keep coming back to the same old confusions. and wonder if I could get some advice specific to my proposed set-up.

Thanks Steve

[Azaniah]

Re: General advice..( new confused user )

Been continuing to look into some of these things..

It would appear that using a loftbox, converts the sigal to a RF type. I know almost nothing about this side of things, but surely that means it will not retain its digital sound and so on? Can anyone confirm this, and if so what alterantives there are?

Thanks Steve

[toscal]

Re: General advice..( new confused user )

Take a look at the Abitana range of Home networking products. It uses one cable, so no need to wire CAT5 and coax ect. The cable is a propietry one so you will need to use the Abitana Omni media cable if you wanted to go with their products. With their system you can distribute TV, Video, Audio, Telephone, computer networks and have your own TV channels for things like the DVD player or Sky box.
The cable is basically a modified CAT5e cable. pair 7&8 have extra shielding and are 0.62mm in dia, while the other pairs are 0.5mm in dia. This extra thickness and shielding means that the cable is capable of carrying frequencies of upto 900MHz, so ideal for TV and video distribution.
Abitana's website is www.abitana.com some parts of it don't work very well with firefox. Abitana's UK dealer is Minitran www.minitran.co.uk

[NWootton]

Re: General advice..( new confused user )

Azaniah

I'm in the same situation; working in the industry where cables and racks are standardised means I am reluctant to invest in 'propriety' cables and enclosures.

The Abitana system does look good as it does the basics with only a single cable type. They also make a 3U DIN Rail unit that can hold up to 22 units that will fit a standard rack. I also understand that they are looking at developing a module that passes HDMI over Ethernet, which may help with Sky HD distribution.

Having said all that, I’m still reluctant to take the plunge – there is a product that Vex spoke to me about called Bliss AV. Very little details available as yet, but I have spoken to them and it appears to be a pure Cat5e based system that will handle data, voice, audio and video distribution. I’m waiting for Phil @ Bliss to let me have more details…

[vex]

Whats the problem with Coax? Technically it has more capacity than any of the CAT series of cables!

I bet you could design a perfectly good system around a hybrid system using Cat5 and Coax.

Steve, the loftbox does distribute stereo it is more the cas that the Sky box does not give stereo output from its UHF connector.

The alternative could be to wire using Cat5e cable and then use a Nexus or the new AVI Lynx matrix switchers that takes (ANALOGUE) composite video and stereo in and can switch it to any of the outputs.

The AVI-Lynx has some clever features like the parental control and priority control where as the Nexus has a host of additional modules including Audio Amps, Patch pannels and even RS232 control.

Let me know if you need more.

As NWooton said the ultimate would be a BlissAV solution that can live encode tv pictures and then share them arround the house as a proper IPTV signal.

Chris

[Azaniah]

Re: General advice..( new confused user )

The renovation is almost ready to start (In just over a week the loft conversion is starting)..

Revisiting my question, has there been much change in the opinion that CAT6 is just not worth the hassle? I know that it is harder to lay (as you need to lay rather than pull) but at the point the house is being pretty much gutted it would be far easier to do than a normal situation (almost new-build).

I did take a look at the AVI-Lynx stuff, and wonder if it will cope with SkyHD.

I need to think about ordering the structered cabling soon so that it is available to lay. Any updates, or new suggestions etc would be appreciatted.

Thanks Steve

[vex]

Hi Steve,

No your opinion of CAT6 is still the right one (in my opinion) Nothing has really changed since March.

Unfortunately anything that uses just a single CAT5e/6/7/8 cable can not be used to pass HD in its analogue component format with audio as well. At this moment the only way to do it is using the data cable to pass it as an IP (Data) message and then convert it using a local pc type device.

The alternative is to pull a minimum of two cat5e's to each location and then you can use a device from Audio Authority that will distribute component HD , Audio and IR over the two cat5es. They even do a HD switcher.

HTH (Hope that Helps)

Chris

[Azaniah]

This isn't a particularly large house - Would the following work..

All the networking (24 ports - at least 2 to each room for network and phone). 24 Port Patch panel to match. 4Port patch panel for telephone. 16 Port switch.

Then the TV / AV bit:

Sky HD to living room. Then using something like the Televes Attic Box to take RF output from Sky HD Box ( I assume that it would still have one), to kitchen bedroom 1/3.

Seperate Sky (maybe Sky+)to bed2 (study / work office etc)

That should mean I can route DAB/FM/Freeview via the Attic box I think.

To be honest although having HD in all rooms sounds nice - it's not the end of the world.

Does this sound reasonable, and does anyone have comments on the quality of Atticboxs.

I have started to spec out which switch, patch panel - but I do have a couple of "dumb" questions.

Even if I don't use BT as my phone provider, do till need them to move the Master Socket ( so that its right next to node 0)?

Can you buy pre-wired 4 port serial patch panels for the phone, so that I can patch this into the main patch panel?

Anyone know a good networking person / company that is prepared to do small jobs like this in the Slough / Windsor area? (Possibly including new areials).

Thanks in advance.
Steve

[vex]

Steve,

It sounds like you are thinking about a full 19" rack mount system, which (IMO) is complete over kit for what you want.

Have a look at the systems that are designed for the home, CRIS box, Home Network Sciences are a couple of brands that will provide you with want you want but in a much more compact, elegant cabint.

THe TV bit will certainly work, it will need a bit of thinking about to get the wiring right but nothing a good install could not do.

I used to have an installer based in Reading, but he emegrated to Canada at the beginning of the year!

I have a couple based locally to me (the other side of High Wycombe) if you struggle to find one locally.

Chris

[Azaniah]

Vex,

You're probably right. But at various times (depending on work / music stuff) I would have 3 Home PCs. 2-3 Work PCs and 2-3 Music PCs (occasionally a server or two as well). So I can physically have anywhere from 3 - 10 machines that need access to either each other or ADSL. I did consider having smaller sub-networks to divide up each aspect, but thought whats the point if I am going to running cable I might as well accomadate up to 16 PCs even if I will never reach that limit. I figured that those 16 ports plus 4 for phones ( as sky boxes will need one each so thats potentially 2 and one for DECT) is almost 20 ports. 24 port patch didn't seem that rediculus at the point.

lol - maybe I am really missing the point here somewhere. Perhaps I should take a drive over the Wheathampstead ( if thats where you are)..

Steve ( it's always amazing how what other people seems simple enough until you start doing it).

[vex]

Re: General advice..( new confused user )

Actually, Justs remembered we have an installer in Slough called Intelligent Living, http://www.intelligent-living.co.uk/ he is called Matt Duff and would be hapopy to help you out

How about this?

Up to 72 patches in a cabinet and TV distribution all in a flush mounting cabinet about 320mm wide!




In terms of a switch, two little 8 port 100mbs switches would do this fine and then an little 8 port patch pannel to do the daisy chaining / splitting of your incoming telephone service

[Azaniah]

That's interesting. Is there a link for more details on that cabinet and setup?

If I phoned Matt - would he be aware who "vex" is? lol

Thanks Steve

[vex]

If you have a look at www.aca-apex.com they are the manufacturers

If you call Matt, Tell him Chris White sent you, I have already spoken to him about your project.

HTH

Chris

[Azaniah]

Chris,

Spoke to Matt, and got a few things sorted. I managed to get a good deal on a load of Connectix Cat5e, but am trying to source CT100 or WF100.

Would you recommend WF100 (as it is slighly cheaper) but seems more resiliant. (I would assume the same goes for the single run of WF65 that I will use).

Thanks Steve

[Azaniah]

Not to worry I managed to source some WF100 for a good price.

Thanks Steve