General HA advice/planning

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  • dazzlevw
    Automated Home Jr Member
    • Sep 2006
    • 24

    General HA advice/planning

    Hi all, first post!!!

    My Situation:
    I'm just buying my first house which needs totally renovating. I'm not going to be in a position to afford to do all of the HA type things that I want to do right now, but, whilst I'm rewiring, i want to make sure that as far as possible I install all the cable I need now whilst I can.

    I'll be running multiple cat5e to each room, all running back to my node0, and probably a run of CT100 to each room as well.

    That will cover me for the setup I have currently(media server running slimserver and GB-PVR, driving sliMP3 players and a hauppauge media MVP) and should also cover me for a few other eventualities(using cat5 for video distribution or for LV control lines).

    So my question I suppose(and I know it's big and general...) what else should I try to account for to leave me in the best position in the future?
    I'd eventually like to have AV/heating/lighting/security etc all centrally managed, I can't say by what system but if I went C-bus then I'd need to run the mains wiring differently to if I went X-10/Z-wave/whatever....

    Any general advice and tips?Any pointers appreciated

    Ta

    Daz
    -----------------------------
    www.darrenwright.me.uk
    www.gbpvr.com
    www.slimdevices.com
  • Paul_B
    Automated Home Legend
    • Jul 2006
    • 608

    #2
    Re: General HA advice/planning

    I've just been introduced to Idratek and it looks very good. In addition the main bus and power runs over cat5e. So I would say whatever you work out as the number of cat5e cables double it.

    Flood wiring at the time of renovating is going tro be much easier then retrofitting.

    Comment

    • dazzlevw
      Automated Home Jr Member
      • Sep 2006
      • 24

      #3
      Re: General HA advice/planning

      Yeah I'm going to stuff as many cat5 in as I can!!.It's so versatile and it's uses can only increase.

      I'll have a look at Idratek, I've just been looking at the Honeywell hometronic system...seems interesting and makes for an easy retrofit...
      -----------------------------
      www.darrenwright.me.uk
      www.gbpvr.com
      www.slimdevices.com

      Comment

      • dazzlevw
        Automated Home Jr Member
        • Sep 2006
        • 24

        #4
        Re: General HA advice/planning

        IDRAtek certainly looks interesting and very reasonably priced.
        If I used IDRAtek, how would I lay out the cable?. The site uses terms like "free topology" and "daisy chaining" without actually specifying any guidelines for installing....

        It would appear that I could set up my electrical system with standard wall switches, run a cat 5 to each location which would be controlled in the future, at a guess by running a cat 5 from node0 to each room and then daisy chaining each control point in that room.....Am I close?

        I'll email IDRAtek anyhow but if anyone has any experience of the system they'd like to share...I'm all ears!!

        Ta
        Daz
        -----------------------------
        www.darrenwright.me.uk
        www.gbpvr.com
        www.slimdevices.com

        Comment

        • FrankMcAlinden
          Automated Home Guru
          • Feb 2004
          • 109

          #5
          Re: General HA advice/planning

          Hi Guys

          Check out davids Idratek install ...may be some help...


          HTH
          Frank
          Home of FirM - the Multi Zone IR Transport System
          http://www.armaghelectrical.com.au/index.html

          Comment

          • dazzlevw
            Automated Home Jr Member
            • Sep 2006
            • 24

            #6
            Re: General HA advice/planning

            Thanks frank,
            I've just spent the last half hour reading that very page, IDRA seems to be just what i'm looking for. I'm just going through their overview document now.

            Cheers

            Daz
            -----------------------------
            www.darrenwright.me.uk
            www.gbpvr.com
            www.slimdevices.com

            Comment

            • bmcomp
              Automated Home Jr Member
              • Dec 2004
              • 28

              #7
              Re: General HA advice/planning

              Hi Daz,

              Just regarding the cabling issue. I would recommend running the Cat5e to everywhere you can possibly think. I have 2 Ca5e cables in each corner of every room in the house and more in other rooms. I also ran some to any switches. I have run speaker cables to the corners of every room and there's a Cat5e in with them. I think anywhere there's power have a Cat5e near by! I have even gone to running Cat5e to light fittings in the ceiling/walls. You just never know when it would come in handy for doing something. And its so cheap. All my cables run back to Node 0. I didn't daisy chain any.

              One thing I didn't do was run a HDMI/DVI cable to each room. I only have one running from Node 0 to my Cinema room. Depending on your house layout and where your Node 0 is you mightn't be able as there is restrictions on the length of a cable you can run. Although you can send it over 2 Cat5e but the modules are expensive.

              Anyway hope it helps

              B

              Comment

              • dazzlevw
                Automated Home Jr Member
                • Sep 2006
                • 24

                #8
                Re: General HA advice/planning

                Thanks B,
                I am going to run as many as I can, how did you go about maintaining the separation between cat5 and power cables where you run them to power points/switches/lights etc...?...power cable from the floor and cat5 from the ceiling?

                I wasn't going to daisy chain but reading the IDRAtek stuff it seems like the way to go for that particular system. I'd still keep a number of straight runs back to node0 for other stuff but the daisy chain for the IDRAnet would seem to minimise the number of terminations required for it in the wiring centre.

                Will think about DVI, I don't yet have a use for it but will have to think about where it may be used in the future.

                Cheers

                Daz
                -----------------------------
                www.darrenwright.me.uk
                www.gbpvr.com
                www.slimdevices.com

                Comment

                • n07tv
                  Automated Home Sr Member
                  • May 2004
                  • 52

                  #9
                  Re: General HA advice/planning

                  Darren,

                  As CAT5 is so cheap why not have two runs, which is what I have. I have a single diasy chained run which just skips through my walls /floors to all my IDRATEK modules and back to my Node 0. This comprises an old laptop running Cortex and a PCA unit. The IDRATEK strategy of controlling things where you use them made perfect sense to me, even though I could have re-wired the mains. My mains cables enter my pattresses from the bottom (sockets) and top (switches). I've brought the CAT5 in from the side and on mains modules, they supply a small moulding that keeps apart. A bit fiddly for bent back boxes, but it does the job.

                  In addition, I have a star configured CAT5 network for datacomms (making sure I don't mix them). As Dave Gumbrell says, copper isn't dead and it works everytime, reliably.

                  I got a new laptop with Wifi this and wireless that and bluetooth the other. I spent so much time configuring it all, working out why I couldn't connect my phone which was sat next to it and turning it on/off when my ADSL dropped out, that all the kit went onto eBay. I bought a really nice set of screwdrivers and a multimeter instead. I've never had to re-wire anything

                  Cheers,
                  n.

                  Comment

                  • dazzlevw
                    Automated Home Jr Member
                    • Sep 2006
                    • 24

                    #10
                    Re: General HA advice/planning

                    N,
                    Absolutely, I will probably run at least 6, possibly more runs to each room.All heading back to a patch panel at node0 to enable me to use them for data/phone/media/whatever.

                    ADSL will come in to node0 and be distributed as required, probably a data point in each room(more where needed),a wireless access point on each floor and one for the garden(can't be without my wireless laptop.....)although I do agree, I like wires.....they have a beginning a middle and an end and it's easy to find out where it's broken!!!

                    My current media distribution uses the data network(GB-PVR for recording and playback of TV, Slimserver/sliMP3 for music) and I will stay with it because I like the functionality and I like the open nature of both pieces of software.

                    For your IDRAnet...I assume you used STP cable? My current network uses UTP and I do have several hundred feet of it in the garage!!!

                    You have just one daisy chain running all the way around your house?Are there pro's/cons to having a single chain vs 1 daisy chain to each room?

                    The cortex machine would probably be based around a mini-itx board running some variety of pentium M processor...depends what I find in the spares box at the time!!!

                    Cheers

                    Daz
                    -----------------------------
                    www.darrenwright.me.uk
                    www.gbpvr.com
                    www.slimdevices.com

                    Comment

                    • FrankMcAlinden
                      Automated Home Guru
                      • Feb 2004
                      • 109

                      #11
                      Re: General HA advice/planning

                      Hi Daz

                      If your able to purchase the Cortex xPL Plugin it might be worthwhile having a look at Medianet for your Slimp3....can be controlled by xPL ... I use an Exstreamer myself with Medianet...... You would be able to send OSD messages to your Slimp3 etc using xPL...



                      Just a thought

                      Frank
                      Home of FirM - the Multi Zone IR Transport System
                      http://www.armaghelectrical.com.au/index.html

                      Comment

                      • n07tv
                        Automated Home Sr Member
                        • May 2004
                        • 52

                        #12
                        Re: General HA advice/planning

                        Daz,

                        I did use STP and the stuff with the foil around rather than the braid.

                        I effectively have 3 daisy chains, top floor, bottom floor and outside (shed etc) that come back to 6WA patchboard and then into my PC interface (PCA). When I commisioned it all, I did a floor at a time, mainly to get used to things happening automatically. I had the electricity off a few months back and it was odd when things didn't happen :-). I suppose the advantage of having separate ones is that you can isolate a part if needed, i.e. break a chain and tap off a spur somewhere else.

                        Cheers,
                        n.

                        Comment

                        • dazzlevw
                          Automated Home Jr Member
                          • Sep 2006
                          • 24

                          #13
                          Re: General HA advice/planning

                          I suppose the advantage of having separate ones is that you can isolate a part if needed, i.e. break a chain and tap off a spur somewhere else.
                          N,
                          Yup, thats really why I was thinking of having one chain per room, I'll have to see how it looks when I get in there.

                          Frank,
                          Excellent link, thanks, I'll look into it...was thinking of using an exstreamer for the garden

                          Cheers

                          Daz[/quote]
                          -----------------------------
                          www.darrenwright.me.uk
                          www.gbpvr.com
                          www.slimdevices.com

                          Comment

                          • Gumby
                            Moderator
                            • May 2004
                            • 437

                            #14
                            Re: General HA advice/planning

                            Oh man, I can't believe I didn't spot this post -- it's all Idratek! Must have been spending too much time on ukha_d :-) Thanks Dazzle for directing me to it.

                            So. looks like a whole bunch of ... what's the collective noun ... "Iddies", "Idroids" ... ? ... have outed themselves :-)

                            Well, folks, sorry that I've been a bit preoccupied with some other stuff to update the blog, but things are getting back to normal now and I'll try and get some updates in. I've got an IPS-002 now, just about finishing up the bedroom renovation, which will feature my first automated curtain and also, if I can decide on the valves, the first directly zoned radiator control.

                            Don't be scared to put "IDRATEK" in big letters in your post titles, I'm more likely to spot them then and keep up with the conversation.
                            ----------------------
                            www.gumbrell.com

                            Comment

                            • Gumby
                              Moderator
                              • May 2004
                              • 437

                              #15
                              Re: General HA advice/planning

                              Now I've found it, I guess I ought to join in ...

                              "Free topology" is just that there are no rules enforcing either star or daisy-chains.

                              I have tended to wire a home-run roughly per room, but sometimes two per room. It seems to work out that for ground-floor I home run to the ceiling module and then star out from there on the drops to wall modules. With upstairs rooms there's a home run from the ceiling modules and wall drops and I have another from under the floor that sometimes stars to the various modules (eg up socket level) and sometimes is more like a dasiy-chain.

                              I ought to go back to my transmission theory books and work out the "best" approach, but it seems to work OK.

                              I've got a bank of 4 6-way patch modules to connect it up, but I'm running out of space. You can double or even triple up feeds into the Camden connectors of course, but I'm considering laying out my own PCB with vertical columns of sockets for neatness.

                              Initially I started with STP, but it's thickness and bend radius caused pulling issues and the lack of mains-grade insulation means that it should be sheathed if it shares any part of the back box with mains (eg if routed in vertically from the top), which makes it even more unwieldy. So I got a reel of pink C-Bus stuff and used that.

                              I think you could route out from the side-bottom of any modules with mains, horizontally straight to the corner of the room and then do the vertical drop and avoid the insulation issue (since the Idratek modules have a segregation shield) and also meet the unprotected cable routing rules in the regs.

                              But because re-plastering my house is such a pain in the b*tt, I tend to cut one wide chase (about the width of a single gang box) vertically and then route mains and pink Cat5 in separate sheathing. All the old lime plaster falls off in great big gobs anyway, so it's sort of better than disturbing it in two places.

                              PS: Don't forget your door switches - they route nicely into DRBs or SLDs and help with the presence. Also, I'm kicking myself for not fitting window sensors when I had the chance to hide the wires. Both to get reminders about any open windows when leaving the house, but also to inhibit heating in rooms with open windows ... I'm not saying who ... but someone in this house likes to heat the street !
                              ----------------------
                              www.gumbrell.com

                              Comment

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