Living room temp at night

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  • Mid112
    Automated Home Jr Member
    • May 2019
    • 37

    Living room temp at night

    Hello,

    Whats everyone view on a temperature of a living room when unused at night?

    I was keeping it at 18C at night, i think if i go lower takes too long to the living room to heat up in the morning.

    Cheers
  • olektrolek
    Automated Home Jr Member
    • Oct 2018
    • 20

    #2
    Hello,
    what is a daily temperature?

    it all depends of room conditions... is it well insulated, how many rads, whats the area...
    but setting it too low might create false impression of making savings...

    anyways - you can try with optimization->optimum start where heating starts in advance to be ready with desired temp on the given time.

    what I observe on underfloor heating it makes very little sense to lower night temp more that one degree. heating up in the morning takes too long.

    Comment

    • Mid112
      Automated Home Jr Member
      • May 2019
      • 37

      #3
      Its a bit tricky.

      We usually have it set between 19-20 during day.

      Its a combined living room and digning room with 2 separate heaters (2 different zones following the same heating pattern)

      Due to co concreate floor under the laminate board the heat lose is quite high i suspect

      Comment

      • lloyd
        Automated Home Guru
        • Oct 2020
        • 160

        #4
        All mine effectively goes off at night (set to 8 degrees). But rely on Optimum start to have the rooms at temperature I want when I want. No guessing about what time to turn things on. And I don't have a very well insulated house.

        Comment

        • DBMandrake
          Automated Home Legend
          • Sep 2014
          • 2361

          #5
          Originally posted by lloyd View Post
          All mine effectively goes off at night (set to 8 degrees). But rely on Optimum start to have the rooms at temperature I want when I want. No guessing about what time to turn things on. And I don't have a very well insulated house.
          Same here.

          We just turn off all our downstairs zones at night (5C in the schedule) and rely on Optimal start to figure out when to turn them back on again to reach the target temperatures at the desired waking times. Each zone has a different warm up speed so they don't all come on at the same time either.

          Comment

          • MajorDanby
            Automated Home Jr Member
            • Jan 2019
            • 44

            #6
            Originally posted by DBMandrake View Post
            Same here.

            We just turn off all our downstairs zones at night (5C in the schedule) and rely on Optimal start to figure out when to turn them back on again to reach the target temperatures at the desired waking times. Each zone has a different warm up speed so they don't all come on at the same time either.
            It’s the same here

            Comment

            • CT1
              Automated Home Guru
              • Apr 2016
              • 189

              #7
              We turn everything down overnight and just schedule the heating to come on early enough to get the room comfortable for when we need to use it. A well insulated home helps.

              Comment

              • olektrolek
                Automated Home Jr Member
                • Oct 2018
                • 20

                #8
                Originally posted by DBMandrake View Post
                Same here.

                We just turn off all our downstairs zones at night (5C in the schedule) and rely on Optimal start to figure out when to turn them back on again to reach the target temperatures at the desired waking times. Each zone has a different warm up speed so they don't all come on at the same time either.

                this might provide false impression of making savings on heating because is off over night, but sometimes bringing the temp back up will cost more than just keep maintaining bit colder over night...

                Comment

                • SteveP
                  Automated Home Guru
                  • Dec 2012
                  • 190

                  #9
                  Originally posted by olektrolek View Post
                  this might provide false impression of making savings on heating because is off over night, but sometimes bringing the temp back up will cost more than just keep maintaining bit colder over night...
                  Yep - ever since I got Evohome back in 2012 I have have scoured the internet along with participating in/watching many a discussion on this forum exactly on this subject - What I have never found to date is a definitive study that could in a controlled situation answer that very question. It is impossible to carry out a study one self due to having to duplicate the two environments in parallel. Just trying to repeat the test in the two methods say over two separate weeks obviously has so many variables weather wise etc etc that makes the comparison nugatory. Love to see a controlled study that could answer this question once and for all though if anyone ever finds one/has found one

                  Comment

                  • killa47
                    Automated Home Guru
                    • Jan 2016
                    • 123

                    #10
                    Originally posted by SteveP View Post
                    Love to see a controlled study that could answer this question once and for all though if anyone ever finds one/has found one
                    Well SteveP, according to the MSE (Martin Lewis website here: https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/energy-saving-myths/), they quote the Energy Saving Trust who say you will be leaking a certain amount of energy to the outside whenever the heating is on therefore the longer you run the heating the more leaks out. Their view is to turn it off when you don't need it.

                    Comment

                    • MajorDanby
                      Automated Home Jr Member
                      • Jan 2019
                      • 44

                      #11
                      Originally posted by olektrolek View Post
                      this might provide false impression of making savings on heating because is off over night, but sometimes bringing the temp back up will cost more than just keep maintaining bit colder over night...

                      This is absolutely never the case…

                      Imagine your room as a box and your heat as energy. If energy is escaping the box you need to supply the equivalent amount of energy to maintain a consistent temperature. Let’s say 10 units of energy escape over an hour period. If you didn’t provide any energy to the box for one hour, in the next hour you would need to provide 20 units to get back to the same temperature - exactly the same amount as you would have used to maintain a consistent temperature.

                      The issue you have is that the heat loss from a house is directly related to the inside vs outside temperature differential. The higher the differential the higher the heat loss. As such it will always be more effective to turn the heating off and then reheat the room. Even if you had perfect insulation you would only ever use the equivalent amount of energy.

                      Obviously boiler efficiency and running in condensing mode plays a part in this but in most homes heat loss at higher temperature more than exceeds the efficiency gains from a boiler ticking away under opentherm control whilst condensing

                      Comment

                      • Mid112
                        Automated Home Jr Member
                        • May 2019
                        • 37

                        #12
                        Ive seen this info but i dont think its correct.

                        When the livingroom for example will cool down to 15c, the boiler will need to work on 100% ch demand for good 2 hrs or longer (depending on factors) to heat up the room to 20c again in the morning.

                        If the livingroom is small it may work but for my openplan it takes to long to heat up in the morning.

                        I suspect everyone circumstances may be different, in my opinion at least for me 2c lower for night works the best. But i will try to do some more testing 😀

                        Comment

                        • SteveP
                          Automated Home Guru
                          • Dec 2012
                          • 190

                          #13
                          I always "love" this thread theme as every time it comes up (on a regular basis ) there are so many opposite views - lol. Hence why I said a detailed parallel test would be great to put this to bed once and for all
                          The "bit" that always nags me about the theory is that if we just consider the air in a room then absolutely it doesn't make a difference whether I heat from cold or maintain a temp, the energy used for the period of heating must be identical as per MajorDanby post. However, if we now add in thermal mass heating ie the heat required to raise the walls, furniture etc so that they become heat emitters (ie mini rads) rather than heat consumers (emitting cold and making the room "feel" cold), then that is the bit that I wonder whether there is an advantage in keeping the room at a higher constant temp (Unless in a highly insulated property with very low thermal mass requirements) so that the room "feel" factor is constantly maintained. I appreciate that this "feel" factor is somewhat unscientific and so on pure energy and temp I expect MajorDanby post and Killa47 Martin Lewis reference are, in absolute energy terms, the “facts of the matter”

                          Comment

                          • MajorDanby
                            Automated Home Jr Member
                            • Jan 2019
                            • 44

                            #14
                            Originally posted by olektrolek View Post
                            this might provide false impression of making savings on heating because is off over night, but sometimes bringing the temp back up will cost more than just keep maintaining bit colder over night...
                            Originally posted by SteveP View Post
                            I always "love" this thread theme as every time it comes up (on a regular basis ) there are so many opposite views - lol. Hence why I said a detailed parallel test would be great to put this to bed once and for all
                            The "bit" that always nags me about the theory is that if we just consider the air in a room then absolutely it doesn't make a difference whether I heat from cold or maintain a temp, the energy used for the period of heating must be identical as per MajorDanby post. However, if we now add in thermal mass heating ie the heat required to raise the walls, furniture etc so that they become heat emitters (ie mini rads) rather than heat consumers (emitting cold and making the room "feel" cold), then that is the bit that I wonder whether there is an advantage in keeping the room at a higher constant temp (Unless in a highly insulated property with very low thermal mass requirements) so that the room "feel" factor is constantly maintained. I appreciate that this "feel" factor is somewhat unscientific and so on pure energy and temp I expect MajorDanby post and Killa47 Martin Lewis reference are, in absolute energy terms, the “facts of the matter”
                            The energy considerations are the same from a thermal mass perspective as well as air temperature. There will obviously be a greater lag to those elements heating up however. Couldn’t possibly comment on feel however 😂

                            Just as an aside - my rooms ‘feel’ hotter when at 19degree and still heating to 20 rather than stable at 20 because the radiators are cooler when maintaining a temp

                            Comment

                            • SteveP
                              Automated Home Guru
                              • Dec 2012
                              • 190

                              #15
                              Originally posted by MajorDanby View Post
                              Just as an aside - my rooms ‘feel’ hotter when at 19degree and still heating to 20 rather than stable at 20 because the radiators are cooler when maintaining a temp
                              Absolutely agree - thats why sometimes I turn the boiler down so that rooms take much longer to reach temp as even though at a lower temp they "feel" warmer as the rad is still going Makes sense but doesn't help the cause of a smart heating system simply trying to maintain a room temp !!

                              Comment

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