Evohome firmware 02.00.19.31 Beta Trial - Exclusive for Automated Home Members

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  • DBMandrake
    Automated Home Legend
    • Sep 2014
    • 2361

    Originally posted by SteveP View Post
    re-enabled cold weather cold weather boost and Advanced Load Scaling yesterday (still have warm weather saver enable). Glorious sunshine today and house is like an oven this morning - how come as warm weather saver should have kicked in? Outside temp in the shade as read by my weather station is 14.2C Evohome showing temp as 9C !! This will be the downside as ideally evohome should support a remote temp sensor so it gets the local true temp not a remote generalised internet temp Nice idea though but once again have had to manually enable eco mode
    Keep in mind that there is typically a lag - sometimes of a few hours between actual temperature at your location and the temperature reported by most online weather services. I use weather.com data for another project and typically see a lag of 1-3 hours versus my actual outdoor weather station. I also see similar on the evohome reported temperature which typically lags behind significantly.

    It seems that rather than using the temperature forecast earlier in the day for "now", (which would give zero lag but rely on the prediction being accurate) they use the last known temperature measurement which can be a few hours out of date as they don't update in realtime.

    So on a day where temperature is rising rapidly you'll see the internet reported figure which is lagging behind being too low, and in the evening during a rapid cool down the internet reported figure will typically be too high.

    Another thing to keep in mind is the geographical resolution of different weather services which varies a lot from one service to another. Just because you have your location entered correctly in the TCC portal doesn't mean the weather service Honeywell uses has observation stations near your location. For example I live in Motherwell and while weather.com lets you use Motherwell as a location the data it returns is identical to the data for Glasgow - which is 17 miles away and has quite different temperatures and weather patterns due to the heat island effect. (And probably also affected by the Clyde river)

    I don't know which weather service Evohome is using (has anyone figured it out ?) but it may be that you're simply a long way from the nearest weather station that service uses so you're getting weather for a nearby town or an extrapolation from further away weather stations.

    In my location the Evohome doesn't do too badly - there is a bit of lag but it's usually within a couple of degrees most of the day so accurate enough for weather compensation. Right now my weather station reports 17.7 degrees - which has risen a degree in the last 30 minutes thanks to clouds finally breaking, and the Evotouch is reporting 15C which it has done for at least the last couple of hours.

    No internet weather service will give the same accuracy as an on-site, properly located and installed weather station/sensor, but super high accuracy is not needed for weather compensation.
    Last edited by DBMandrake; 5 April 2020, 02:23 PM.

    Comment

    • DBMandrake
      Automated Home Legend
      • Sep 2014
      • 2361

      Originally posted by kevinsmart View Post
      I see Warm Weather Saver in action. I have one zone demanding 4% and the other 8% but with outdoor temperature of 10C the boiler pump is not running.

      Previously it would be in overrun.
      Are you sure that's new ? Is your system TPI or OpenTherm ?

      Because on a TPI system with the default 6 cycles an hour and 1 minute on time the boiler won't fire until there is at least 10% heat demand.

      Comment

      • SteveP
        Automated Home Guru
        • Dec 2012
        • 190

        Originally posted by DBMandrake View Post
        Keep in mind that there is typically a lag - sometimes of a few hours between actual temperature at your location and the temperature reported by most online weather services. I use weather.com data for another project and typically see a lag of 1-3 hours versus my actual outdoor weather station. I also see similar on the evohome reported temperature which typically lags behind significantly.

        It seems that rather than using the temperature forecast earlier in the day for "now", (which would give zero lag but rely on the prediction being accurate) they use the last known temperature measurement which can be a few hours out of date as they don't update in realtime.

        So on a day where temperature is rising rapidly you'll see the internet reported figure which is lagging behind being too low, and in the evening during a rapid cool down the internet reported figure will typically be too high.

        Another thing to keep in mind is the geographical resolution of different weather services which varies a lot from one service to another. Just because you have your location entered correctly in the TCC portal doesn't mean the weather service Honeywell uses has observation stations near your location. For example I live in Motherwell and while weather.com lets you use Motherwell as a location the data it returns is identical to the data for Glasgow - which is 17 miles away and has quite different temperatures and weather patterns due to the heat island effect. (And probably also affected by the Clyde river)

        I don't know which weather service Evohome is using (has anyone figured it out ?) but it may be that you're simply a long way from the nearest weather station that service uses so you're getting weather for a nearby town or an extrapolation from further away weather stations.

        In my location the Evohome doesn't do too badly - there is a bit of lag but it's usually within a couple of degrees most of the day so accurate enough for weather compensation. Right now my weather station reports 17.7 degrees - which has risen a degree in the last 30 minutes thanks to clouds finally breaking, and the Evotouch is reporting 15C which it has done for at least the last couple of hours.

        No internet weather service will give the same accuracy as an on-site, properly located and installed weather station/sensor, but super high accuracy is not needed for weather compensation.
        Yep agree with all your observations and that there is a high dependency as to where the local weather station is plus each evohome owners physical location and surrounding. We are protected by hills from northerly winds but this morning we have southerlies so nicely warming up the house the issue really is that when you hit the boundary of the cold boost in terms of the actual outside temperature (14.5c) vs the evohome reported outside temp (9C) the difference is enough to be boosting the heating rather than setting it back. That will always be an issue with using internet weather data. Would be useful to know what weather data is being used by evohome as may help identify the accuracy? What may be an option that doesn't involve physically changing the evohome electronics would be to link a DT92 as an outside temp stat and use a zone to record the outside temp until a water proof outside temp stat is available? The DT92 needs to be mounted in a waterproof box but I would gladly give up a zone for better outside temperature compensation as my boiler is a trusty Valliant Combi that I have been told has many more years life and so I wont be able to justify to "the boss" changing the boiler for some time just so I can enjoy opentherm benefits

        Comment

        • SteveP
          Automated Home Guru
          • Dec 2012
          • 190

          Originally posted by paulockenden View Post
          I'm sure the email said there's new icons...
          Paul, from the email I can only see cold boost icons having been added Warm weather shutdown and load scaling appear to be "behind the scenes magic"

          Comment

          • kevinsmart
            Automated Home Ninja
            • Sep 2018
            • 257

            Originally posted by DBMandrake View Post
            Are you sure that's new ? Is your system TPI or OpenTherm ?

            Because on a TPI system with the default 6 cycles an hour and 1 minute on time the boiler won't fire until there is at least 10% heat demand.
            Yes, I’m using OpenTherm with my own weather compensation via OTGW and the behaviour has definitely changed with the firmware upgrade.

            The boiler was completely off, 10C demand, rather than a low 20-30C demand.

            Comment

            • kevinsmart
              Automated Home Ninja
              • Sep 2018
              • 257

              Originally posted by SteveP View Post
              Paul, from the email I can only see cold boost icons having been added Warm weather shutdown and load scaling appear to be "behind the scenes magic"
              That appears to be correct, I see the Warm Weather behaviour without icons so far.

              Comment

              • garymtitley
                Automated Home Sr Member
                • Feb 2019
                • 59

                My evohome system is running via opentherm control,bedroom 1,2 and three are at the moment following the warm weather function and are off,the colour on the evohome controller is grey but not showing any other icons.All other zones are starting to come online as per normal.

                Comment

                • kevinsmart
                  Automated Home Ninja
                  • Sep 2018
                  • 257

                  Originally posted by garymtitley View Post
                  My evohome system is running via opentherm control,bedroom 1,2 and three are at the moment following the warm weather function and are off,the colour on the evohome controller is grey but not showing any other icons.All other zones are starting to come online as per normal.
                  Yes, just noticed that zones are grey with off icon.

                  Comment

                  • DBMandrake
                    Automated Home Legend
                    • Sep 2014
                    • 2361

                    Originally posted by kevinsmart View Post
                    Yes, I’m using OpenTherm with my own weather compensation via OTGW and the behaviour has definitely changed with the firmware upgrade.

                    The boiler was completely off, 10C demand, rather than a low 20-30C demand.
                    Sounds like warm weather shutdown is only useful on an OpenTherm system then, as a TPI system will already not fire the boiler until the heat demand is at least 10%. (Dependent on minimum on time and cycle settings)

                    Still don't have the update yet so I can only speculate how it will behave on a TPI system.

                    Comment

                    • bruce_miranda
                      Automated Home Legend
                      • Jul 2014
                      • 2307

                      Have you seen any evidence yet of the outside temperature being exchanged between the OTB and boiler?

                      Comment

                      • mtmcgavock
                        Automated Home Legend
                        • Mar 2017
                        • 507

                        Warm weather is working on my system too today - all zones as showing as off currently. TPI based system.

                        Comment

                        • bruce_miranda
                          Automated Home Legend
                          • Jul 2014
                          • 2307

                          We have discussed HW priority.
                          But what is HW heating state that appears to be another feature?

                          Comment

                          • DBMandrake
                            Automated Home Legend
                            • Sep 2014
                            • 2361

                            Originally posted by mtmcgavock View Post
                            Warm weather is working on my system too today - all zones as showing as off currently. TPI based system.
                            Ok, but would the boiler have been stopped anyway without the feature enabled due to heat demand of all zones being less than 10% ? Next time you see that condition, turn the feature off and see whether the boiler fires...

                            We've had warm weather today with rooms being near their set points without any help from the heating and my boiler has been off most of the day too, and I'm still on the old firmware.

                            Comment

                            • mtmcgavock
                              Automated Home Legend
                              • Mar 2017
                              • 507

                              Originally posted by DBMandrake View Post
                              Ok, but would the boiler have been stopped anyway without the feature enabled due to heat demand of all zones being less than 10% ? Next time you see that condition, turn the feature off and see whether the boiler fires...

                              We've had warm weather today with rooms being near their set points without any help from the heating and my boiler has been off most of the day too, and I'm still on the old firmware.
                              You are right, when I checked the demand all zones were showing as 0% before - but i'm not sure if that was because the feature had kicked in and switched them to 'off' (They show as like you've set the system to 'Heating OFF') For instance the kitchen is set at 21oc, and was showing as 20.5oc room temp and showing as warm weather shut down. I suspect if i'd turned warm weather off this zone would have come back on (As there's two rads in there) I'll check next time when there's a low demand, not always easy to catch a 10% demand though!

                              Comment

                              • mtmcgavock
                                Automated Home Legend
                                • Mar 2017
                                • 507

                                Originally posted by bruce_miranda View Post
                                We have discussed HW priority.
                                But what is HW heating state that appears to be another feature?
                                It shows the status of heating within little Cylinder on the display next to the HW temp - fully coloured in means HW heated (Solid Red), Flame symbol within the cylinder symbol means currently heating.

                                Comment

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