Evohome firmware 02.00.19.31 Beta Trial - Exclusive for Automated Home Members

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  • DBMandrake
    Automated Home Legend
    • Sep 2014
    • 2361

    #76
    Originally posted by mtmcgavock View Post
    Have to say the Cold Weather boost here too isn't working well, finding the 10oc outside set point is too high for the Cold Weather Boost to kick in and is boosting zone unnecessarily. Needs to probably be more like 5oc for me....

    Panel is reporting 10oc, local weather is saying 11 and my own sensor saying 12 outside too which isn't helping.
    How low the outside temperature needs to be before a boost is appropriate is going to depend on many factors including insulation in the house - the threshold temperature differential probably needs to be adjustable in the settings to make it useful..

    7.3 degrees outside here according to my own weather station, the Evohome itself is also reporting 7 degrees.

    Comment

    • frankmalia
      Automated Home Sr Member
      • Apr 2019
      • 63

      #77
      Originally posted by mtmcgavock View Post
      Have to say the Cold Weather boost here too isn't working well, finding the 10oc outside set point is too high for the Cold Weather Boost to kick in and is boosting zone unnecessarily. Needs to probably be more like 5oc for me....

      Panel is reporting 10oc, local weather is saying 11 and my own sensor saying 12 outside too which isn't helping.

      Its not 10 degrees temp, it is 10Degree below setpoint so if your setpoint is 16'C and above, and your difference in outside temperature is 10'C then your room will boost if set.

      I agree the -10'C below setpoint may not be good for all, depending on individual room thermal insulation. I think this needs to be variable and variable by the room. Also some saying it should take in windchill(feel like temperature), I agree with that.

      For my living room where I am sat now, its boosting 0.5'C, that is ok with me. 19C SP outside temp 9C so actual setpoint is boosting to 19.5'C

      Other rooms in my house which have better thermal properties or worse, I would like to lower or raise the differential for boosting.

      Its a improvement.

      Comment

      • mtmcgavock
        Automated Home Legend
        • Mar 2017
        • 507

        #78
        Originally posted by frankmalia View Post
        Its not 10 degrees temp, it is 10Degree below setpoint so if your setpoint is 16'C and above, and your difference in outside temperature is 10'C then your room will boost if set.

        I agree the -10'C below setpoint may not be good for all, depending on individual room thermal insulation. I think this needs to be variable and variable by the room. Also some saying it should take in windchill(feel like temperature), I agree with that.

        For my living room where I am sat now, its boosting 0.5'C, that is ok with me. 19C SP outside temp 9C so actual setpoint is boosting to 19.5'C

        Other rooms in my house which have better thermal properties or worse, I would like to lower or raise the differential for boosting.

        Its a improvement.
        You're quite correct, I had misread/misunderstood that point. That's why i'm finding it behaving oddly - I have my set points quite high, 21,22,23 in different areas. Knowing that now, yes ideally the -10oc difference needs to be variable, maybe not by room but at least as a system whole.

        My house is quite well insulated too, so I guess that will have a big knock on effect. Along with which way you're house is facing, today the sun is out so the rooms are keeping warm at the front even though the outside temp maybe only 10oc.

        Comment

        • frankmalia
          Automated Home Sr Member
          • Apr 2019
          • 63

          #79
          Originally posted by frankmalia View Post
          Set Point Issue on one room.

          Seen this twice now, my dining room keeps getting a Setpoint 30’C, this happen yesterday after software update and this morning while dining room was pre heating before setpoint time had started.
          The Setpoint should be heated to 18.5’C by 07:10am and then change to 5’C at 07:20.
          Woke up before 7am and found Dining room SP 30 and on pre heat symbol.
          Other rooms were on Pre Heat and like living and they had there correct SP.

          Bit concerned there is some glitches that is going to cook my house.

          Please see picture of Dining room SP schedule and Living room behaving correctly.
          This 30’C SP cannot be a overrule as there is no symbol of clock or mobile phone.
          [ATTACH=CONFIG]1525[/ATTACH]

          Ok thats the third time my dining room has set the SP to 30'C, it is only doing in my dining room that I have noticed. It is only when optimising start is working, once the room is at its time actual schedule time it goes to correct setpoint.

          Comment

          • DBMandrake
            Automated Home Legend
            • Sep 2014
            • 2361

            #80
            Originally posted by frankmalia View Post
            Ok thats the third time my dining room has set the SP to 30'C, it is only doing in my dining room that I have noticed. It is only when optimising start is working, once the room is at its time actual schedule time it goes to correct setpoint.
            I have seen random changes to 30 degrees on the old firmware on my system, although not recently. I even documented it on a thread here.

            Try rebooting both the HR92's in the affected zones and the controller to see if it helps.

            Comment

            • SteveP
              Automated Home Guru
              • Dec 2012
              • 190

              #81
              Originally posted by DBMandrake View Post
              Do the zones in question have remote sensors or just rely on the HR92's sensor ?

              Generally a remote sensor will give better weather independent comfort year round with fixed set points - although it can take a little trial and error to find the best location in the room for the remote sensor to go to give subjectively equal comfort under different conditions.
              I’ve been using evohome since it’s inception so have mainly HR80s but yes they predominantly use the inbuilt sensor. Just 3 rooms use the remote wall sensors DT90s. So maybe just due to old type thermostats perhaps?
              Do agree with another post that perhaps a variable difference may be an idea as can allow individual homes to fine tune, unless there is a way to get the true “feels like”temp?
              As also stated “an improvement” but already feeling like my initial enthusiasm is waning with the reality
              Also switched off the adaptive load scaling as similar to another post I was getting a little weary from the pump never stopping as I don’t have a variable pump speed pump and so can get a bit noisy in the pipes when maybe only a few rads asking for heat.
              Wondering if my real needs are
              A) adjustable eco set
              B) ability to have a spring/autumn schedule and a winter schedule. I can then use my in built Human sensors to adjust accordingly !

              Comment

              • mtmcgavock
                Automated Home Legend
                • Mar 2017
                • 507

                #82
                Originally posted by SteveP View Post
                Also switched off the adaptive load scaling as similar to another post I was getting a little weary from the pump never stopping as I don’t have a variable pump speed pump and so can get a bit noisy in the pipes when maybe only a few rads asking for heat.
                To reiterate that, my pump overrun hasn't stopped running all day nearly due to the short runs of a few minutes which kicks in the 5 minute overrun. Giving the learning the benefit of the doubt at the minute, but if it carries on like this after a week or so I too will be turning the Adaptive Load off.

                Comment

                • frankmalia
                  Automated Home Sr Member
                  • Apr 2019
                  • 63

                  #83
                  Originally posted by DBMandrake View Post
                  I have seen random changes to 30 degrees on the old firmware on my system, although not recently. I even documented it on a thread here.

                  Try rebooting both the HR92's in the affected zones and the controller to see if it helps.

                  I'll let Andy the minion have look first remotely.. Then try that, as pretty sure not seen this before, and seen it 3 times in a day now. Plus I log my temps and SP, so would of seen this. I have seen a 30'C temp in hallway once, but I think sure this was override symbol, and you mentioned the reboot, which I probably did then.

                  At the moment it is not effecting anything as it switches back to SP once start optimisation has finished.

                  Comment

                  • DBMandrake
                    Automated Home Legend
                    • Sep 2014
                    • 2361

                    #84
                    Originally posted by mtmcgavock View Post
                    To reiterate that, my pump overrun hasn't stopped running all day nearly due to the short runs of a few minutes which kicks in the 5 minute overrun. Giving the learning the benefit of the doubt at the minute, but if it carries on like this after a week or so I too will be turning the Adaptive Load off.
                    Not sure how this would be any different to opentherm which would tend to keep the pump running with very little boiler output ?

                    I actually have a 12 minute overrun on my pump precisely so it doesn't stop and start during every TPI cycle so I don't see this behaviour as a problem for me...

                    Comment

                    • mtmcgavock
                      Automated Home Legend
                      • Mar 2017
                      • 507

                      #85
                      Originally posted by DBMandrake View Post
                      Not sure how this would be any different to opentherm which would tend to keep the pump running with very little boiler output ?

                      I actually have a 12 minute overrun on my pump precisely so it doesn't stop and start during every TPI cycle so I don't see this behaviour as a problem for me...
                      My point being that i've not seen any improvement levels in terms of comfort to warrant the extra cost of running/wear on the pump to be running all day at this current time, admittedly that may improve over the course of the week as the system learns. It seems to bring it on for a couple of minutes, say 5 times every 30 minutes which I guess it's supposed to do, just not seeing any benefit at this current time - if anything it'll cost more to run as it stands. As I said i'm probably not giving it long enough to learn.

                      Comment

                      • bruce_miranda
                        Automated Home Legend
                        • Jul 2014
                        • 2307

                        #86
                        In any case, I think a 5 min overrun is too little. Maybe keeping it as high as 30 like me, is unnecessary too. But with OT the pump rarely switches off in any case.

                        Comment

                        • Andy the Minion
                          Automated Home Sr Member
                          • Nov 2017
                          • 86

                          #87
                          Originally posted by SteveP View Post
                          I didn’t get a boiler option when I registered - does it depend upon whether you use total connect or Honeywell home?
                          Steve, The others are commenting on the process of adding the service company for diagnostics, rather than requesting the firmware. The second is completely optional.
                          Resideo employee. Comments are personal, and likely to get a hard stare from Rameses

                          Comment

                          • DBMandrake
                            Automated Home Legend
                            • Sep 2014
                            • 2361

                            #88
                            Originally posted by bruce_miranda View Post
                            In any case, I think a 5 min overrun is too little. Maybe keeping it as high as 30 like me, is unnecessary too. But with OT the pump rarely switches off in any case.
                            Which was the point I made earlier - OT systems already have the pump running near continously on light loads.

                            Although the pump running continuously across each TPI cycle (so long as there is some demand) might use slightly more electricity, it causes less stress on the pump and heat exchanger in the boiler to keep that pump running across each cycle than stopping and starting the pump during every 10 minute TPI cycle. Which is why I chose 12 minutes overrun for a 10 minute TPI cycle.

                            And on an old vented system like mine that constant stopping and starting of the pump can trigger kettling in the boiler due to the frequent sudden changes in flow and pressure.

                            Comment

                            • mtmcgavock
                              Automated Home Legend
                              • Mar 2017
                              • 507

                              #89
                              Originally posted by DBMandrake View Post
                              Which was the point I made earlier - OT systems already have the pump running near continously on light loads.

                              Although the pump running continuously across each TPI cycle (so long as there is some demand) might use slightly more electricity, it causes less stress on the pump and heat exchanger in the boiler to keep that pump running across each cycle than stopping and starting the pump during every 10 minute TPI cycle. Which is why I chose 12 minutes overrun for a 10 minute TPI cycle.

                              And on an old vented system like mine that constant stopping and starting of the pump can trigger kettling in the boiler due to the frequent sudden changes in flow and pressure.
                              Yes but with OT theres a demand, so the pump is pumping somewhere - on a TPI cycle the BDR91 unlatches and closes the Heating MV and therefore it's just pumping round the bypass. So all the useable heat is just going round the bypass circuit.

                              Comment

                              • Andy the Minion
                                Automated Home Sr Member
                                • Nov 2017
                                • 86

                                #90
                                Originally posted by DBMandrake View Post
                                Not sure how this would be any different to opentherm which would tend to keep the pump running with very little boiler output ?

                                I actually have a 12 minute overrun on my pump precisely so it doesn't stop and start during every TPI cycle so I don't see this behaviour as a problem for me...
                                In a previous life I came from the boiler industry and have been used to setting the pump to run constantly in opentherm or otc systems. The HR92 stay open when the boiler is off and my logic is this allows the heat that may have be left standing in a pipe run to be distributed evenly within the house and the water comes down to a nice steady return temperature ready for the next burner on cycle. I have no actual evidence which is better mind, just a gut feeling.
                                Resideo employee. Comments are personal, and likely to get a hard stare from Rameses

                                Comment

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