Ideal Vogue & Opentherm via Honeywell T6 Lyric (wired version)

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  • Strat789
    Automated Home Lurker
    • Nov 2017
    • 2

    #76
    Hi, Richard

    I am looking at Ideal Vogue S32 and using Evohome to replace my current system. I emailed Ideal Technical support re the S32 boiler and Evohome compatibility and they stated: As far as we are aware, there are currently minor compatibility issues with Honeywell controls, We have no known issues with any other units such as Hive, Nest controllers etc.
    We do have our own control unit called the Touch, this works on open-therm but is still in the development process and as of yet is not ‘internet ready’ although we aim to release this feature early next year.

    Which I find interesting, because as far as I'm aware Hive doesn't implement Opentherm. That aside, did you resolve the issues with modulating the S32 and evohome ?

    Comment

    • richardc1983
      Automated Home Sr Member
      • Nov 2016
      • 86

      #77
      I don’t have evohome I just use the lyric t6 as the main thermostat.

      Not resolved yet, ideal say they are still testing the newly reprogrammed pcb’s from Honeywell. What I don’t understand is why other opentherm controllers are working ok but Honeywell’s are not working ok, when the boiler firmware on the pcb will be the same. Ideal blame Honeywell for programming it wrong! Is there a diff firmware per controller that the boiler will use depending on what’s connected? You would think opentherm is the language so the commands and feedback would be the same.

      Comment

      • bruce_miranda
        Automated Home Legend
        • Jul 2014
        • 2307

        #78
        Maybe, just maybe some OT controllers are designed to talk to a much wider range of boilers and in doing so employ some sort of fail safe I.e. Oh so Mr Boiler you didn't understand this, how about now? Where the Honeywell controller is so arrogant, that it just folds it's hands and tells the boiler, you can't understand me? Your loss.

        Comment

        • richardc1983
          Automated Home Sr Member
          • Nov 2016
          • 86

          #79
          Ideal have replied;

          I have spoken to our R&D team again on this query.

          From speaking to them it is apparent that Honeywell opentherm devices control both the flow temperature and the burner output, whereas most only operate the boilers flow temperature.

          This is causing the boiler operating mode to be overridden and hence the issue.

          I have again chased the PCB’s needed for your boiler today and am assured they will be with us very soon when I will be in touch again.

          Comment

          • dty
            Automated Home Ninja
            • Aug 2016
            • 489

            #80
            Can anyone with an OpenTherm gateway confirm this?

            Comment

            • Dan_Robinson
              Automated Home Ninja
              • Jun 2012
              • 347

              #81
              Sounds like flannel to me.
              Kind Regards - Dan Robinson (Jennings Heating Ltd)

              Comment

              • HenGus
                Automated Home Legend
                • May 2014
                • 1001

                #82
                Having spent more time than I should looking at my boiler (Atag with OT) maximum flow temperature is limited by the TMax temperature set in the boiler profile. HW and CH will control to the the TMax temperature and, as far as CH is concerned, the manual set temperature is ignored.

                For example, this morning I checked the boiler when it was in the last stages of re-heating my cylinder and the calculated TMax Set was 70C with a profile TMax of 70C. When CH came on with 4 zones below the target temperature, the boiler flow temperature slowly climbed to calculated TMax of 70C and then dropped down quickly to a calculated TMax of 52 with a return flow of 42. Interestingly, when there is no heat demand, the calculated TMax falls to 20C.

                I appreciate that a lot of the above may be boiler specific.

                Comment

                • dty
                  Automated Home Ninja
                  • Aug 2016
                  • 489

                  #83
                  Originally posted by Dan_Robinson View Post
                  Sounds like flannel to me.
                  I agree...

                  Comment

                  • richardc1983
                    Automated Home Sr Member
                    • Nov 2016
                    • 86

                    #84
                    I’ve replied with this;

                    So are you saying the new pcb’s are going to inhibit this ability for the Honeywell controller to control burner output or is it going to be a case of fully allowing the Honeywell control of the boiler so as not to cause a conflict with the two fighting each other?

                    Comment

                    • richardc1983
                      Automated Home Sr Member
                      • Nov 2016
                      • 86

                      #85
                      So what do you think the actual issue is then? That they have found issues in their pcb and are trying to correct it and blame Honeywell in the process.

                      Comment

                      • Dan_Robinson
                        Automated Home Ninja
                        • Jun 2012
                        • 347

                        #86
                        Well, although I am working from an old spec for Opentherm, I can't see anything that says the OT master has any direct say over what the burner does. That would be potentially dangerous, even if Honeywell designed the combustion train too.

                        The fact remains, this is a master-slave relationship and the boiler will do what its told through Tmax. If ti doesn't understand then it will default to full power to ensure comfort.
                        Kind Regards - Dan Robinson (Jennings Heating Ltd)

                        Comment

                        • richardc1983
                          Automated Home Sr Member
                          • Nov 2016
                          • 86

                          #87
                          Originally posted by Dan_Robinson View Post
                          Well, although I am working from an old spec for Opentherm, I can't see anything that says the OT master has any direct say over what the burner does. That would be potentially dangerous, even if Honeywell designed the combustion train too.

                          The fact remains, this is a master-slave relationship and the boiler will do what its told through Tmax. If ti doesn't understand then it will default to full power to ensure comfort.
                          So from what they have said the boiler doesn’t understand what is being asked of it so just doing as it wants to achieve comfort.

                          Comment

                          • Dan_Robinson
                            Automated Home Ninja
                            • Jun 2012
                            • 347

                            #88
                            That's my guess.
                            Kind Regards - Dan Robinson (Jennings Heating Ltd)

                            Comment

                            • paulockenden
                              Automated Home Legend
                              • Apr 2015
                              • 1719

                              #89
                              Originally posted by richardc1983 View Post
                              it is apparent that Honeywell opentherm devices control both the flow temperature and the burner output, whereas most only operate the boilers flow temperature.
                              Aren't the two things pretty much equivalent?

                              Reduce the burner output and it'll reduce the flow temperature.

                              P.

                              Comment

                              • DBMandrake
                                Automated Home Legend
                                • Sep 2014
                                • 2361

                                #90
                                Originally posted by paulockenden View Post
                                Aren't the two things pretty much equivalent?

                                Reduce the burner output and it'll reduce the flow temperature.
                                Not really.

                                If you specify a target flow temperature using OpenTherm the boiler will modulate the burner kW output as necessary to meet and maintain that requested flow temperature.

                                If you were to specify a target burner output in kW directly using OpenTherm (which I don't think it can do anyway) the flow temperature that you ended up with would be all over the place depending on the load presented by the radiators, so wouldn't provide any useful control.

                                Comment

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